Curb Weights for S12 and many other cars

XanoHas anyone thought of using heat to bend the lexan/plexiglass?

Ive done it before for art purposes, and I managed to get a curved V shape out of a sheet of 1/4 inch plexi in an art class without it cracking at all, only problem is it distorts the view a bit.

WilkieYeah, the only problem with apply any sort of heat to plastic is that this happens.  You end up with a very milky plastic where the heat was applied.

I'll just wait until Engineer Scotty comes back in time to save Humpback whales and invents transparent aluminum along the way.

WilkieI'll just wait until Engineer Scotty comes back in time to save Humpback whales and invents transparent aluminum along the way.

One issue that really hasn't been addressed with cutting all the weight out of a car is grip. If you hack and slash the rear end of your car, your not gonig to have enough weight to allow for good grip. This does not translate into easier drifting, but it will cause more unperdictable drifts/ shitty high speed downforce. If you really feel that your car is to heavy, which at a good 2,400 lbs of diet it's not, look more into poewr adders. If you truly want to get into SCCA/NASA racing, you'll have to make a certian power to weight for your class. So before you go punching holes and cutting things out, think about the cars front/rear/side-to-side weight balance.

If you think that the savings of 100lbs. is that significant, add another 25-30 whp to make the difference.

I just I'll just change my name to "Thread stooooop-p-p-p-per"

You should if you keep posting like that! lol

I agree with what you said 100% there.

And here this should be /thread..

Last time I was down at the beach I drove my buddies S2K. Great fucknig car, awesome handling out of the box, great power, just a blast to drive. His car is bone stock except a Borla cat-back. Then I drove another friend S2K. Again, bone stock, no cat back, but he got a hard top for it. It's the stock aluminum hard top from Honda. But what he did was remove the soft top assemble from the car as well. The ass end was WAYYYYYY to light when he did that. At highway speed, you could feel the back getting lighter and lighter. At about 80 the car was uncontrollable.

So this is why shaving every last pound is not a good idea. The car was designed to have a certain balance. Cutting and hacking will ruin this unless you plan on re-balancing the car using steel weights.

At this weight, you're right... You have to get more serious with car aero, diffusers, splitters, wings, etc.

Though I would like to point out that with my hatch at 2400LBS, I don't notice any stability issues in the rear, though it does need more weight back there. It's more noticeable during winter though, for obvious reasons.

I do however notice the rear isn't as firmly planted when I drive with out the rear spoiler. So that might be more of an issue with the notch than the hatch, might be something worth looking into for Sterling.

To add weight you can always weld in steel block to the back, over the axle. I've never drive a notch 200sx, and personally and no offense, I never really like them. Just like an AE, I always have to go with the hatch.

That aside, I would venture to guess that if you want to go below the 2,200 lbs. mark, you'll need some serious aero parts. People might go you for the big GT style wing, but if put on proper, you'll be amazed at the difference it will make for high speed stability.

Haha, I must be the only person on here that would ever tell you to ADD weight to a car. I must be nuts...

dirtymike1One issue that really hasn't been addressed with cutting all the weight out of a car is grip. If you hack and slash the rear end of your car, your not gonig to have enough weight to allow for good grip. This does not translate into easier drifting, but it will cause more unperdictable drifts/ shitty high speed downforce. If you really feel that your car is to heavy, which at a good 2,400 lbs of diet it's not, look more into poewr adders. If you truly want to get into SCCA/NASA racing, you'll have to make a certian power to weight for your class. So before you go punching holes and cutting things out, think about the cars front/rear/side-to-side weight balance.

If you think that the savings of 100lbs. is that significant, add another 25-30 whp to make the difference.

IggyEGuanaSorry only thing I can agree with there is the part about balance.  As far as there possibly being such a thing as "too light"?  No way.  A fairly balanced, very lightweight car with decent rubber will corner circles around a heavier, more powerful car with hugh rubber.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaWoo82zNUA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKBPONygGxI

Whoo Hoo! Ariel Atom rocks my socks every time.
"No weight to pull you out of line."  from the TopGear vid.

Very true about stability and funny u mention karts cuz karting is something that comes naturally to me.  They are the total opposite of stability.  Ultra quick and direct streering with ultra lightweight.  Some people cant handle the unforgiving nature of it but I get hooked on it.  I can put the kart where I want when I want and it asks for more.  Like Clarkson said about the Atom lol.  Never miss an apex fuck yeah.  I wanna pilot one of those badass karts you see guys  bring to autocrosses but when I think about it I'd rather just build a full car to emulate them lol

I'm just an all-or-nothing personality.  Type A personality?  If I'm gonna do something I do it all out.  I go for it.  Some people get bent out of shape over some of the stuff I say cuz I'm always so strongly in favor of what I'm in favor of.  But if I were you I wouldn't even listen to me.

omg this made me think of something.  Could you imagine driving F1?  Its just like karting but on a much larger and MUCH much faster scale.   I can visualize it.  Damn thats nuts I wanna do it!  Wish I woulda grown up in karting and then had the door opened to higher levels of pro motorsports.  Pro drivers grow up in it these days and it you werent raises on the track its near impossible to get ur foot in the door.  Damn it all to hell

I don't agree that a car can be TOO light; it just needs to have a proper balance. If I were to reduce some weight, I'd do it evenly front and rear. Also maybe add a little bit of parts here and there to ballast the car. Think of it this way, if a car was made 50/50 and you weight reduced it to 60/40, that'd be a big FAIL. Maybe if the car was significantly lighter, like say 300-400 lbs I'd probably consider it, but then I'd have my spare tire and battery in the back to try to offset the front imbalance. Now that I think about it, weight reduction and vehicle balance go hand in hand and requires compromises between both.

dirtymike1One issue that really hasn't been addressed with cutting all the weight out of a car is grip. If you hack and slash the rear end of your car, your not gonig to have enough weight to allow for good grip. This does not translate into easier drifting, but it will cause more unperdictable drifts/ shitty high speed downforce. If you really feel that your car is to heavy, which at a good 2,400 lbs of diet it's not, look more into poewr adders. If you truly want to get into SCCA/NASA racing, you'll have to make a certian power to weight for your class. So before you go punching holes and cutting things out, think about the cars front/rear/side-to-side weight balance.

If you think that the savings of 100lbs. is that significant, add another 25-30 whp to make the difference.

Weight reduction without GREAT tires (not "decent") is a waste. It's like beefing up the swaybars without improving the tires. Also a waste. Just begs the car to slide around on its own whim.

Maybe if you want to drift, but not the best solution if you want to race. You can't just take out a bunch of weight and expect that to help, yo need improve traction and flex accordingly in the *proper places*.

And yes, where you remove weight is more important than how much you remove.

Updated the list with some oldschool musclecars and a new musclecar, as well as 1G Neon.

2,300 lbs. - Corolla GT-S (1986)
2,355 lbs. - 240Z
2,441 lbs. - 1G Neon ACR
2,493 lbs. - 1G Neon R/T
2,500 lbs. - Nissan Sentra (current)
2,524 lbs. - Toyota MR2 Mark II
2,625 lbs. - Maxda RX-7 (FC)
2,640 lbs. - 200SX (S12 Turbo/NA 4 cyl)
2,659 lbs. - 2G Dodge Neon/SRT-4
2,699 lbs. - 240SX (S13)
2,756 lbs. - Honda S2000 (2,855 lbs. in later years)
2,762 lbs. - 240SX (S14)
2,772 lbs. - 200SX (S12 "SE" V6)
2,822 lbs. - Mazda RX-7 (FD Series Cool
2,840 lbs. - Honda Prelude (4G 1992-96)
2,899 lbs. - Honda Civic Si (2007 coupe)
3,000 lbs. - Toyota Supra Mark II
3,000 lbs. - Subaru WRX (2G)
3,095 lbs. - Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX (1G)
3,153 lbs. - Skyline GT-R (R34)
3,157 lbs. - Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX (2G)
3,265 lbs. - Toyota Supra Mark IV
3,299 lbs. - 300ZX (Z32)
3,300 lbs. - 300ZX 2-seater (Z31)
3,400 lbs. - Plymouth 'Cuda AAR (1971)
3,468 lbs. - Toyota Supra Mark III
3,560 lbs. - BOSS 351 Mustang Mach I (1971)
4,152 lbs. - Dodge Challenger (2008, 2009)

Going to change the title to "curb weight"

ArroUpdated the list with some oldschool musclecars and a new musclecar, as well as 1G Neon.

2,300 lbs. - Corolla GT-S (1986)
2,355 lbs. - 240Z
2,441 lbs. - 1G Neon ACR
2,493 lbs. - 1G Neon R/T
2,500 lbs. - Nissan Sentra (current)
2,524 lbs. - Toyota MR2 Mark II
2,625 lbs. - Maxda RX-7 (FC)
2,640 lbs. - 200SX (S12 Turbo/NA 4 cyl)
2,659 lbs. - 2G Dodge Neon/SRT-4
2,699 lbs. - 240SX (S13)
2,756 lbs. - Honda S2000 (2,855 lbs. in later years)
2,762 lbs. - 240SX (S14)
2,772 lbs. - 200SX (S12 "SE" V6)
2,822 lbs. - Mazda RX-7 (FD Series Cool
2,840 lbs. - Honda Prelude (4G 1992-96)
2,899 lbs. - Honda Civic Si (2007 coupe)
3,000 lbs. - Toyota Supra Mark II
3,000 lbs. - Subaru WRX (2G)
3,095 lbs. - Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX (1G)
3,153 lbs. - Skyline GT-R (R34)
3,157 lbs. - Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX (2G)
3,265 lbs. - Toyota Supra Mark IV
3,299 lbs. - 300ZX (Z32)
3,300 lbs. - 300ZX 2-seater (Z31)
3,400 lbs. - Plymouth 'Cuda AAR (1971)
3,468 lbs. - Toyota Supra Mark III
3,560 lbs. - BOSS 351 Mustang Mach I (1971)
4,152 lbs. - Dodge Challenger (2008, 2009)
Going to change the title to "curb weight"

ArroSeems you're right, "In The Beginning" class if my searching is correct.

I think im diggin the weight personally xD at least in my current s12,
next one is gunna be lighter.

Living in SD there is a shton of snow
and i drive around like a truck  

smashing through drifts, and pulling up to work next to all the trucks is pretty BA

hopefully the project will be lighter, but still get around xD

Leegamer2-seater Z31 is around 3000-3100 depending on trim level.

An 84 Turbo weighs right at 3050 stock.

WilkieYeah, the only problem with apply any sort of heat to plastic is that this happens.  You end up with a very milky plastic where the heat was applied.

I'll just wait until Engineer Scotty comes back in time to save Humpback whales and invents transparent aluminum along the way.

haha i tried telling people that, We use this trick with lexan or plexiglass to make desktop art easels for art classes.  Me and my old high school art teacher spent 3 days bending about 160 of these things.  I mean yes, it does distort things a BIT on the bent portion, but your view area is still HUGE even with that.

Xanohaha i tried telling people that, We use this trick with lexan or plexiglass to make desktop art easels for art classes.  Me and my old high school art teacher spent 3 days bending about 160 of these things.  I mean yes, it does distort things a BIT on the bent portion, but your view area is still HUGE even with that.

HOT DAMN! that turned out even better than I imagined!

It would be kewl to see how it works out with the lexan between the glass in the oven, just outta curiosities sake...

I was wondering tho, is there like a coating you could put on it? I know, it would add wieght, but minimul at best. But say just like a clear coat, a couple good heavy coats... when it starts getting bad, faded/scratched etc, you could just resand the top layer and reaply another protective layer. Im sure theres gotta be some kinda paint or something out there that would be perfect for it?

Heres kinda my thinking. You know how the plastic lenses over headlights get all yellowed and scratched n such? Well a while back, the boss got one of those headlight restor kits and had me redo his lights. I was totaly impressed by the way it came out. Im sure there has to be a way to do it with the lexan/plexi as well?

I think a big thing about the headlights is the heat from the lights as well maybe? And theres not gonna be that much heat on a rear window, mostly just summer sun right? I dunno, was just thinking out loud kinda thing. I wish someone would do it and see how it works out.. it could be me I suppose.. but Im realy more interested in a sorta plexi-glass hood.. I need to take some weight off the front to alter the way it handles.. (I think) It has a massive understeer issue...

Now do I take wieght off to calm the forward momentum and ease up the pushing of tires along? Or do I add wieght up there to shove the tires harder intot the ground for more traction??? I fear adding wieght is probably the real trick...

I suppose it would be easy enough to add a tone of wieght temporarily to test it out, or just remove the hood and see the dfferance...

But yet again, one more thing Im waiting to work on till the engine swap ordeal...

LupichCan anyone give me a few points as to how to reduce the weight of my S12? I want to get this car as light as possible as its quite heavy.

Dude Lynium, 1/4" plexiglass hood would look sexy as fuck, at least on a newer car. I KNOW it would look badass on an S13 or S14.  And the curve is very slight in most areas except for the very front edge.

Imagine a plexi hood, with a leather bra that goes between the popups, and hood pins.

Only problem would be how easily it can crack, meaning one rock thrown up onto it fairly hard and it'd be done.  Even if it IS 1/4".  I had a 1/4" plexi sunroof, and it was a bitch with cracking, if you overtightened it even the slightest bit, it would crack.

Hmmm.. well, I was thinking take the hood itself, cut it all out, like trim it and leave just the outter edges, and fill the rest in with lexan/plexi.. (there was anpother material I was looking at too, realy kick ass stuff.

But if you used the hoods outter edge, and kinda clmaped the plexi into it, with a rubber gasket/padding kinda deal, that would reduce some of the vibrations and allow it to flex a hair better kinda thing right? dont know if that would help, but meh. also alot easier to make the hood, keep the old hood latch n springs etc...

more or less cut the whole thing out and insert plastic stuffs.

It would be worth a try, just to see what it does. I can see your point tho, and it would suck... maybe sectioning it off to smaller peices, keeping a template so parts of it can be replaced here n there when neccesary.

I still think it would be dope to try, and prolly will when I get around to the body. Also, I may need to make/customize a hood anyways depending on how that engine fits in there...

lexan is nothing like plexi

plexi=crap
lexan=hottness

Not talkin bout plexi for this stuff anymore.  Its junk

Back to lexan hatch glass.
Can it be tinted like normal glass is done?
+1 to question bout protective coatings

ArroUpdated the list with some oldschool musclecars and a new musclecar, as well as 1G Neon.

2,300 lbs. - Corolla GT-S (1986)
2,355 lbs. - 240Z
2,441 lbs. - 1G Neon ACR
2,493 lbs. - 1G Neon R/T
2,500 lbs. - Nissan Sentra (current)
2,524 lbs. - Toyota MR2 Mark II
2,625 lbs. - Maxda RX-7 (FC)
2,640 lbs. - 200SX (S12 Turbo/NA 4 cyl)
2,659 lbs. - 2G Dodge Neon/SRT-4
2,699 lbs. - 240SX (S13)
2,756 lbs. - Honda S2000 (2,855 lbs. in later years)
2,762 lbs. - 240SX (S14)
2,772 lbs. - 200SX (S12 "SE" V6)
2,822 lbs. - Mazda RX-7 (FD Series Cool
2,840 lbs. - Honda Prelude (4G 1992-96)
2,899 lbs. - Honda Civic Si (2007 coupe)
3,000 lbs. - Toyota Supra Mark II
3,000 lbs. - Subaru WRX (2G)
3,095 lbs. - Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX (1G)
3,153 lbs. - Skyline GT-R (R34)
3,157 lbs. - Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX (2G)
3,265 lbs. - Toyota Supra Mark IV
3,299 lbs. - 300ZX (Z32)
3,300 lbs. - 300ZX 2-seater (Z31)
3,400 lbs. - Plymouth 'Cuda AAR (1971)
3,468 lbs. - Toyota Supra Mark III
3,560 lbs. - BOSS 351 Mustang Mach I (1971)
4,152 lbs. - Dodge Challenger (2008, 2009)
Going to change the title to "curb weight"

^^
and what about hatch vs notch?

ArroWhere are you getting either of those figures? Every account says otherwise, including people who have taken cars to weigh stations. There's no way a turbo S12 weighs 3K. And no way in hell that a Z31 weighs the same or less. Not even the 2-seater.

To get back to everyone on the lexan. There IS a Lexan out there that has a sprayed on protectant, it's called MR10, It's scratch resistant, and polarized (but regular lexan usually is also)

But that crap is CRAZY expensive. A sheet big enough to do a rear window, Is quite considerable. I got a quote of 110 bucks, just for that. And who knows how much it would cost to actually manufacture it.

If I can figure out the dynamics of it all, I have an old toaster oven from like, 1972 that I can guarantee could heat a 10 sq foot enclosed environment to make it on the cheap. We used it to heat our bathroom in the dead of winter when we couldn't afford to buy a space heater. Plus it has the temp requlation, so the lexan would never overheat and bubble.

If anyone is SERIOUSLY interested in this, I will go forth and apply my time to it. The semester is ending, And I will be bored (As I cannot have a job).

But as it was said earlier, It would only be for drag purposes as to make up the difference in weight with a wider tire. Drift would probably be a bad Idea, As the balance of the car will be SEVERELY altered.

Maybe in a years time I'll be interested in a lexan rear. I've thought about it a lot, and I've considered fabing basic molds to curve the stuff. Have we already discussed the temp needed? Since I'm planning a hack job on anything unnecessary anyway, I've really been toying with something thrown around before and just losing the hatch all together. Way easier and with a basic cage, I could have a vinyl tonneau made to cover the rear. Wouldn't be too expensive. I'd just be putting a full size spare or two, along with my battery, in the rear-most position I could. Also easily reversible if I wanted to fit the hatch again.

proly don't even need to consider the cage for now. I don't imagine the hatch amounts to a lot of structural rigidity.

Julies: ahhmm aluminum exhuast manifolds are for marine purpose for good reasons...

but Aluminum Exhuast systems other can be used. though less resistant to scratching and being smashed  

lexan scratchs easly, low temp sustainablity(meaning it warps at low core temps 120 f° aproximately is shaping temp  depended on thickness) and breaks in large jagged shards(not safe) your better off using sheet metal or fiber glass to replace side windows. cost effective its not.

falkhenJulies: ahhmm aluminum exhuast manifolds are for marine purpose for good reasons...

but Aluminum Exhuast systems other can be used. though less resistant to scratching and being smashed  

lexan scratchs easly, low temp sustainablity(meaning it warps at low core temps 120 f° aproximately is shaping temp  depended on thickness) and breaks in large jagged shards(not safe) your better off using sheet metal or fiber glass to replace side windows. cost effective its not.

So, I don't know if it's just senseless or stupid, but I was serious about losing the hatch. Is that reasonable... has it been done?

if you ditch the hatch,that may lead to chassis problems later on.especially if this car is going to be worked out daily.i dropped a good amount by ditching all interior behind the front seats.i ditched the carpet,the sound deadening,the back seats,and the spare. if you want to get reallly light,ditch all the ac piping in the dash and all that stuff.the heater core is pretty chunky too.the ac condensor,the ac pump.the list goes on.basically get rid of all the comforts and you will feel a difference.i dropped around 50 lbs,and no matter what people say...i could feel that missing 50lbs. when id try to slide a corner the ass would love to just float out and it was easier to slide.

what about the front steel crossmember dealie, behind the bumper. Could that be replaced easily enough? Basically tend towards the colin chapman school of thought and want to "add lightness" as much as I can.
           I've read on the forum, some peoples goals of shaving 600lbs. I mean, short of replacing body panels, that shouldn't be too difficult should it?
           I really am as unexperienced as it gets, and tend towards a lot of guesstimation, but maybe I'm way off. I just see shaving weight as the more appealing startwork than just adding more HP. I see myself setting a goal of 600 (if that's reasonable) and then worry about balancing later.
           I think if there's a thread I've been hoping to gain some insight from those of you with the knowledge and experience, it's this one. Would appreciate some insight.

yeah you can take the bumper supports off, just dont hit anything or try to stand on them afterwards. for the hatch, id leave it just for looks. im not into having missing body panels and such but you can completely gut it still, like take out the harness, wiper motor, etc etc. in fact id highly recommend stripping the harness and sound deadening too after youve done everything else to save a few more pounds

The weights listed are WAY off in the light direction!!  I have spoken about this several times on many forums, and i just typically say post the weight SLIPS from the stations, some are a little off like 40lbs or so, but most car calibrated on the regular.

AnyWEIGHS... the s12 is on the lighter side of things, but they is a 275 lb. swing from early base model coupe SRA, to late-model decked out v6 with IRS! So from 2500 to 2800. A stripped s13 with sr20 weighs 2800(no interier, a/c ect)

That being said I have several cars and weigh them all. I got 2 s110's 2500(early manual) and 2700(late auto) both stock at the MOMENT! An s14(had for 10 years) that is rediculously light 2150(lexan ect)track car, and 2 ae86's They are stock from 2400-2600lbs depending on options and -coupe or +hatch 100lbs. But mine both at 2000 with LOTS of weight reduction! (ive had 2 others)

So many people on this forum assume many things, and talk about things that they have no idea about. I'm not all high and mighty, or think i know everything, but please talk about what you know, or ideas, not post things as facts.

Pete
[email removed]

Dorimaster what are you talking about? If your referring to Arro's list of car weights yeah some of those are off a fair amount. Besides that I don't see what your referring to. Most of what I read that was directed at how to reduce weight in the s12 was by no means complete assumption by people that have no idea what they are talking about.

I did an initial weigh in on Saturday for my notch (see thread in welcome area).  With the 15"SSR Formula wheels, SR20det, large FMIC, turbo back 3" mild steel exhaust I weighed in at 2630lb without driver.

This included 6 gallons of gas in the tank, some random tools laying in the trunk, and full interior/trunk/spare/jack/etc.  

At the track on the following day I removed the spare tire and all random tools and it was at least 50lb, so it looks like a notch with SR20det swap, FMIC and full exhaust weighs 2600lb.

I read this thread pretty quick, so I might have missed it if someone already mentioned it.

-An easy way to get a gross weight of your vehicle is to load it full of recycling, then go to the large metal recyclers.  Alot of them do it by vehicle weight on entry and exit. The exit weight is the one you want!

-There are kits with 4 weight pads, one for each wheel so you can balance out the car, great help!

-In the early days of the 510 & 240z, when they were new.  Downtown Datsun(San Jose, CA) & FAR Performance (Mtn View, CA) would strip the car clean, even paint and weld all the seams, in a 3"weld-1" no weld-3"weld-1" no weld repeating pattern.  This made the car stronger and still flexible at the same time.  Then they would dip the entire car in an acid bath to remove a set amount of metal, I think it was near 0.0005? which would save them like 300 lbs!

The press info for the 87 vg30 s12, shows a curb weight of 2976lbs , with manual trans and no A/C.

I weighed my car with a full tank, of gas two amps, and a sub+box.  I can't remember if this was with me (160lbs) or without me.  But it weighed in at 3258lbs (1478kg).

Being a VG car, it has all the standard options (power everything), but no cruise control, and does not have a sunroof.