Mar 3, 2011, 4:22 am · #1
methylprop on 02:59:14 AM / 03-Mar-11We are all here for the same reason our love for s12's. I just want to see more love and less hate.
Damn hippies are everywhere! laugh
Damn hippies are everywhere! laugh
Super Street S12's
Damn hippies are everywhere! laugh
Mar 3, 2011, 4:24 am · #2
lmfao. i love everyone. solid opinions from everyone i keep it at that all OPINIONS.
Mar 3, 2011, 6:15 am · #3
2 weeks?
It's a good thing I don't pay for tires. Mine typically burns them up in about, 2 days....
Granted, that's not the cars fault. It's mine Cheesy
Much more fun that way
I'm not joking either. It's why I bought my coats tire changer
Mar 3, 2011, 6:17 am · #4
Run through used tires like diapers.
Mar 3, 2011, 6:19 am · #5
My brother thinks the star specs are going to last me 6 months. I told him I was going to change my driving habits. No more random burnouts lol. I won't be autoxing on these also since I have the slicks...unless its raining out that is...
Mar 3, 2011, 6:19 am · #6
Got that right.
Did 24 tires in one day at the track last year. I put on probably 200 miles of sideways. Was pretty awesome
Mar 3, 2011, 6:50 am · #7
I get free used tires from the pile at the car dealerships, we have a deal that we can take them when there not open Wink pays off , but I'm a drifter so I don't care how long my tires last. The bmw,porsche,infiniti dealerships we get tires for my friends car. At the hyndaui, honda, saab, volvo, chevy,ford dealerships we get them for my car Cheesy. Lol funny how that works out pays off though to live here in maine and have 25 dealerships 5 minutes down the road.
Any ways I just want my car recognized and show that man has a car scene, thats the reason why i want mine it a big mag. And also because of the website i help run. Wink
Mar 3, 2011, 7:13 am · #8
methylprop... seriously man, I'm with maxpow on this. You're like way outta whack lol.
This is all about discussion. If something's brought up, it gets talked about. If someone doesn't like something, they CAN SAY SO ON CLUB-S12. They just can't start trash-talking INDIVIDUALS PERSONALLY.
So, if I or anyone else wants to criticize something about an S12, I can, and someone else can, and we will.
And again, there are facts, and then there are opinions, and there are some grey areas between the two.
EightySix200SX on 03:25:52 AM / 03-Mar-11yuperZ. wowZaaaZ maxpow fuck man! lol
offtopic: seems like the SAN DIEGO guys are ripping up another SE car! i hear this one is mint condition as well. put it down for the position!
I need the front rotors and brake calipers.
Mar 3, 2011, 7:57 am · #9
Jay on 06:15:57 AM / 03-Mar-112 weeks?
It's a good thing I don't pay for tires. Mine typically burns them up in about, 2 days....
Granted, that's not the cars fault. It's mine Cheesy
Much more fun that way
I'm not joking either. It's why I bought my coats tire changer
lol those tires lasted me the longest, they were brand new when i got the car.
I usually go through 3 pairs at the track
Mar 3, 2011, 10:00 am · #10
Arro on 09:13:24 PM / 02-Mar-11Not sure how you are measuring track performance, but if his car was raised up more in the rear, it would handle far better. There's a threshold with lowering our cars, he's way past it. If yours had a bushing kit in the rear, it would probably handle better despite the extra front weight of the RB26, imo.
Well I am sure there are multiple ways he could have done his suspension. However, with the setup he had, the car performed well enough for him to get around the track and stuff. So that is what impressed me was the manner he could get around and how effective for what was done to the car.
As for my car, yeah, a bushing kit probably would help. It's been on my mind. But I also need an overhaul of struts and springs, which is on the books. A couple other things are on the list as well.
But seriously, this thread has really detracted from the original topic and more than once. So to get back on track, thanks for the compliments guys. I am sure Andrew and Henry are appreciative. Even though Henry has gone a different route, to still be acknowledged is still a good thing. And yes, each of us had varying amounts invested into our cars and in different forms but as someone said, serious thought, planning, and dedication got the three of us to where we are. So it cannot be said that it is a far cry for an S12 to be done up within a handful of years to become something entirely different. Took me a couple years of working on my car and it was recognized. One just needs a clear vision and fortitude and it can happen.
Mar 3, 2011, 3:05 pm · #11
I didn't think giving a few nice cars some props would cause so much controversy lol.
Mar 3, 2011, 3:34 pm · #12
Nameless on 03:05:53 PM / 03-Mar-11 I didn't think giving a few nice cars some props would cause so much controversy lol.
Welcome to CS12 Wink loll
Mar 3, 2011, 3:58 pm · #13
Never a dull moment, Unless its about 2 or 3 am west coast time
Mar 3, 2011, 4:07 pm · #14
Good job on the mag spread guys.....but lets not forget who the OG of SS is......even if it was a tiny b/w 2"x2" blurp.....oh yeah laugh
Sorry....I just pulled my s12 out of hibernation...so I'm getting all gigity about taking it for a spin yes
Mar 3, 2011, 4:48 pm · #15
Colin I think you have more than a couple years in your car, since most of its visual cleanup was done prior to the RB26, and the RB20 paved the way for a good deal of the RB26 implant. Yours has been a long time work in progress.
When I talk about "performance" I am talking about gripping a track for actual measurable results; it's fact that drifting isn't measurable, which is why it's judged more or less on artistic form. So there's no real way other than "how it feels or looks" to assess the actual performance. In contrast, a lap time will tell you exactly how well your car is performing, as you make changes, and I assure you, severe negative camber is a detriment to handling in a racing performance environment.
That said, extra negative camber might even help with drifting a bit. So, I suppose it depends on what you want from your car.
Nameless: Every car forum has some kind of controversy, especially when it comes to form vs. function discussions, and style often prompts those kinds of threads.
Mar 3, 2011, 6:18 pm · #16
Keith on 04:07:36 PM / 03-Mar-11Good job on the mag spread guys.....but lets not forget who the OG of SS is......even if it was a tiny b/w 2"x2" blurp.....oh yeah laugh
Of course we cannot forget Keith! He's the man and most certainly the OG... that's for sure. For those who are not aware, Keith's Reader's Ride, and the first in the US that we know of detailing an S12, can be found here: http://s12silvia.com/?p=329. There is a reason as to why I always give him props for when got my features and Reader's Rides as well. If it was him who set the bar for me and gave me the goal to aspire to.
Mar 3, 2011, 6:25 pm · #17
Prolowtone on 03:58:19 PM / 03-Mar-11Never a dull moment, Unless its about 2 or 3 am west coast time
Lol. Feel that.
Mar 3, 2011, 6:36 pm · #18
Arro on 04:48:53 PM / 03-Mar-11Colin I think you have more than a couple years in your car, since most of its visual cleanup was done prior to the RB26, and the RB20 paved the way for a good deal of the RB26 implant. Yours has been a long time work in progress.
Yes, my car has been years in the process and longer than a couple. But let me break it down for you. I bought my car in 04 and didnt know what it was literally. It wasnt until 05 when I started working on it or doing anything to it in general. It was Jan. 31/Feb. 1st 2005 when I did my dash and door panel swap. That would put me before I even joined this site. Because of that I count 2005 as the beginning of my time invested into the car when I was serious about it. Then come summer of 2006, I finished my RB20 swap and later that year received interest from mags. Then in April and May of 2007 I was in print. Whether it is a Reader's Ride or Full Feature, it doesnt matter. The car was eligable for print. Not to mention, Peter Tarach of Modified Magazine said that my with my RB20 swap I was extremely close for a feature. I was just lacked the horsepower they looked for and my interior wasn't dialed in. Both of which I was assuming going into it. But to have my car as an RB20 all but qualify for a Full Feature back then was great news. So yes, when I say a couple of years I do mean it. Starting in 2005 when I began to play with my S12 and being in print twice in the first half of 2007 (April for Turbo Magazine and May for Modified Magazine, both Reader's Rides), that does count as being magazine worthy. And if you want to talk about my RB26, then you are looking at five years of work of when my car was finished and my photoshoot taken (first half of 2010) and then being published in 2011. Not to mention being published in S3 magazine in 2010. Please, I am full aware of my car and such. Like at JCCS when I had to correct what you were saying to an onlooker about my car. I can accurately describe both my cars and its parameters, so I am pretty dead on about it. The only other person who has as much knowledge about my car would be Randy and he would testify as well.
So in short, yes a couple of years can qualify for both my Reader's Rides. And then five years for both my full features.
About judging and actual lap time and such. It doesnt really matter. You may not have an exact time at a drifting event but it counts as a sport and both the car and the driver has to perform at a particular level. This stuff is not easy and the mechanics that go into it are as demanding as a track built car. And even though it is judged, there are obvious bits that when looked at, drifting can easily show the performance capability of both car and driver. There is a reason why the professionals are capable of things that a ProAm and amateur guy is not. After being in the background of FD, it has become more clear to me. What it seems is that what is being stated is a bit more opinion than fact and it is something that can be debated and it doesnt matter to me. Drifting is as much of a sport as other automotive sports and we all know there are other sports out there that are a lot less interesting and seemingly random as Drifting.
Edit: about the subjectivity of FD/Drifting.
By nature, yes Drifting is a bit more subjective than other automotive sports. That being said, there is quite a bit of measurable results. They are really noticed on the preceding days of the main event, having been held on a Saturday. Come Thursday (not open to the public) and Friday (partially opened to the public), there is a lot of stuff going on and the observations and judging are by far less subjective than on Saturday, the main event for the public. Both of the previous days no one is focused on the smoke, sound, and other bits that would excite the crowd, thus drawing more of the subjective judging. What we as fellow teams look at each other is the exit speed of the first bank, the angle at each turn of the track, the consistency of the angle throughout the track, the matching of the ideal line set up by 'point' cones, and the time it takes to accomplish all of this through the entire track - the measurable average speed held throughout the track. It isnt until Saturday that the public is there that the judging becomes more subjective. For obvious reasons, a show must be presented to the masses for if they are not excited then they wont continue to attend and that means no paycheck.
I have not argued the degree of camber and wont. I fully am aware that at a point it becomes a detriment. It am pretty sure everyone is aware of that with the VIP/HellFlush trend. With the negative camber they really cannot drive on the street at times - of course depends on their setup. What I am saying that is the way Henry chose to set up his car and with the nature of his car and doubts that I had about its ability to perform, Henry impressed me because he was able to make his car move and decently effective as well. Was he trying to be competitive and qualify for ProAm or such? No. He was out there to have fun and see what he can do. He was enjoying the car the way we all should. Design and build a car that fits our personality and desires. Then take the car out to the track for some fun and enjoy it. He did all of that and with his chosen setup it worked out better than I had expected. Again, I said I was impressed. That is an opinion on my part of how well it performed.
But this has far detracted from someone congratulating about s12s making it into SuperStreet. It would almost seem that this thread is more about suspension setup and function, which would deserve its own thread. I think there have been threads in the past covering this. Nameless, this tends to happen when particular cars come up as well.
Mar 3, 2011, 9:12 pm · #19
It's a lounge thread, so it's allowed to wander, within reason. So far, it's discussing the merits and flaws of one of the cars mentioned by the OP, so it's within reason.
No offense, but all of that you typed was unnecessary. No matter what physics may be involved in drifting, it is not an activity with which you can measure performance. Period. No ifs, no ands, no buts, no exceptions to that. If anything, it's one of those sports like ice skating, where particular movements can be noted and points awarded, but ultimately it is about artistic style and how agressive you take the track -- and your opponent.
Also I might add, since you haven't done a bushing kit yet, and Henry's pretty much gone through every single piece of the rear end with urethane, you'd be surprised just how much of an improvement it can make. Jphillips got in my blue S12 last year and took it for a spin, and the first thing he mentioned was how unpredictable the rear end felt. If Henry's gone through the entire rear suspension with urethane pieces, and used super stiff rear springs (which he did), then his car is entirely predictable.
Predictable car + good driver who knows his car well = excellently controlled drifts
In drifting, that's the magic formula.
In actual, measurable situations, there is so much more to it than that. So to say his car handles good is baseless. To say it's predictable and the driver knows his car well, that's within reason.
And none of your extended explanations of drifting geometry and physics can change that. Anyways most of us have probably been pretty familiar with the elements and science of drifting for some years now. I know I have.
My entire original point was to mention that in the case of his car, form was chosen over function. Nothing changes that fact.
Mar 3, 2011, 10:51 pm · #20
While I agree that henry's car is form over function. I have to disagree that you can't measure the performance of a drift car. It's very easy for me to tell if a car is better or worse at drifting, being a drifter. Car setup makes a huge difference and although predictability does help, there's really more to it then that. The car has to be extremely reliable, and I honestly feel that tuning is one of the most important if not the most important part of drifting, even more so then the driving in my eyes. I mean drift cars are constantly being beat on and are put under a lot more stress then normal cars setup for grip, so it puts even more importance on the mechanics. Predictability can be measured, horse power can be measured, Angle can be measured, reliability can be measured. There's a reason the people with the biggest budget cars are winning in formula drift and it's not because they're best drivers in my opinion. It's just because they have the best setup car. This is why I believe we need a street legal drift series, similar to D1 street legal so that it puts the focus back on the driving and less on the tuning. That's just my 2 cents though.