Jun 29, 2011, 7:08 pm · #1
Petersburg, VA
In 6 months, I will be looking to purchase a SRA S12. Will edit further in that time.
[VA] WTB 6 months from now: Mark I Solid Axel Chassis
Jun 29, 2011, 8:19 pm · #2
Why is it so many people think Mike Kojima is a god or something? The dude might be smart but he has his biases just like any other human automotive guru. The semi trailing rear arms are not necessarily "bad" for drifting they just are not the most ideal. Plenty of guys have successfully drifted in semi trailing rear arm suspension rwd vehicles (for example, besides the s12 and z31, the BMW e30). If you wanna get a SRA s12 just to please Mike Kojima and hopefully get featured in MotoIQ then go for it. But there is absolutely no reason you can't successfully drift in an IRS s12, especially if your running some decent aftermarket suspension.
Jun 29, 2011, 8:27 pm · #3
the only real issue with our irs is the shitty aftermarket to control the camber from lowering IMO. figure out a way to adjust the suspension and your all good.
but regardless. to get "started" into drifting since your asking for advice.. it doesnt matter what car you use! seat time is experience buddy
Jun 29, 2011, 8:56 pm · #4
Well, here is the explanation I was given by Mike on the Semi-Trailing arm setup and why it's bad. Not only does the camber change with movement, but so does toe, and toe movement, in anything, is bad, but even more so with drifting because you will have to fight the car as the suspension compresses and rebounds.
Also, listening to some of the other experts (not just Mike), there seems to be some advantage with a solid rear axle compared to the IRS. There are only two advantages that I can think of, one is that when the suspension moves, alignment doesn't. Two, when one tire moves up, the other gets pressed down and puts more traction on that tire. I'm more inclined to believe the former than the latter, as the latter is really good for off road guys. I really don't know, but I want to find out because I was always told that you want an independent rear, even in drifting.
Besides, any car I own that I want to use for demonstration will be on MotoIQ, I'm one of the writers! :D So, no, I'm not totally trying to please Mike, because if I was, I would be selling my right hand to get a S13. I really need that hand... AND STOP THINKIN' DIRTY! :P
Jun 29, 2011, 9:24 pm · #5
The E30 is a very, very, very common drift car. and it has a semi trailing arm suspension. The things he said are true. Yes. But it's not the difference in good vs bad. That falls primarily on the setup, spring rates, and alignment to begin with.
I honestly wouldn't worry too much about it. Seat time is everything.
But, if you insist. Good luck on your trade! I hope you do find what your looking for.
Jun 29, 2011, 9:27 pm · #6
You know, it probably would make an interesting comparison to write about. Space and cost would be my only killers on doing it.
Jun 29, 2011, 10:20 pm · #7
Justin Banner on 08:56:26 PM / 29-Jun-11Well, here is the explanation I was given by Mike on the Semi-Trailing arm setup and why it's bad. Not only does the camber change with movement, but so does toe, and toe movement, in anything, is bad, but even more so with drifting because you will have to fight the car as the suspension compresses and rebounds.
Its true that the semi trailing rear arm setup has the camber and toe problems you describe but this is mostly due to the soft spring rates from the factory. After you modify the suspension and beef up the rear spring rates it isn't nearly as big of an issue. And as long as you don't drop your IRS s12 more then 3ish inches the rear camber will be passable (i.e. -4.0 degrees or less).
David B on 08:27:58 PM / 29-Jun-11but regardless. to get "started" into drifting since your asking for advice.. it doesnt matter what car you use! seat time is experience buddy
Exactly. Unfortunately in the general drift scene it seems a lot of people would rather fixate on their chassis then their seat time. Someone with a lot of experience is basically always going to be able to drift a non ideal car much better then someone with an ideal car and only a little experience.
Jun 29, 2011, 10:28 pm · #8
Redneck on 10:20:25 PM / 29-Jun-11Its true that the semi trailing rear arm setup has the camber and toe problems you describe but this is mostly due to the soft spring rates from the factory. After you modify the suspension and beef up the rear spring rates it isn't nearly as big of an issue. And as long as you don't drop your IRS s12 more then 3ish inches the rear camber will be passable (i.e. -4.0 degrees or less).
Yeah, I didn't plan on much of a drop, maybe an inch lower, at most, front and rear.
Well, I guess I can start this as part one and then buy the solid axle car later. Two part Project Obscurity, maybe? It would certainly give me something to write about and be an interesting piece even on MotoIQ.com. Could also be a great lesson to those who have unusual chassis, like the S12 and show that with a little thinking, little tinkering, and seat time, nearly anything can drift. That's what I'll do, I'll keep this up, but edit it for purchase of a SRA car in 6 months.