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Mr.510's '87 S12 SE-V6 Turbo

Started by Mr.510 · Jan 9, 2013 · 12postsSMF 2010–26

Mr.510Jan 9, 2013, 3:32 am · #1

I bought my very good friend Dennis (silverton)'s '87 200SX SE-V6 yesterday. Here is a link to his build thread on the car: http://club-s12.org/retro4/index.php?topic=33152.0

I've been involved with this car since he bought it. I flew to Colorado with Dennis to buy the car and drive it home. That was a fun trip that involved a 50mph spin into the median backwards on black ice, MUCH speed across several states, lots of loud music and caffeine, and a scary as hell drive over Dead Man Pass in a blizzard with me at the wheel. Most of the work done to the car to this point was done at my shop, mostly by Dennis, but with an 'assist' from me on things like fab work.

I was riding in Colin's S12 shooting video of the car along the waterfront on the viaduct when some idiot did a lane change directly in front of Dennis and smashed the nose of the S12. It was dumb luck that I got the illegal lane change and resulting accident on tape. I replaced the core support on the S12 with one we went and got in Eastern Washington. Dennis did all the sanding, painting, and most of the taking stuff apart and putting it back together required to fix the car. I did the structural work.

Here's a quick run down of mods to the car to this point, my starting point. (Mostly a copy & paste from the CL ad.)

Drivetrain:
Vented Stock Airbox with "French Fry Guard"
MSD 6AL
Blaster 2 Coil
Maxima 90 amp Alternator
Test-Pipe (cat delete)
Borla XR-1 Stainless Racing Muffler
Lightened steel flywheel ~16.5 pounds
Z31T Clutch (Nissan factory parts)
5 speed swap with FS5W71C trans (broken)
Shortened Shifter with Perrin billet aluminum knob
Braided stainless clutch line eliminating dampener

Suspension / Brakes / Chassis:
Z31T front hubs with Infiniti J30 rotors and calipers w/ Metal Master brake pads
Z31 trailing arms with vented rotors and Metal Master brake pads
Braided Stainless brake lines all around
Cut stock springs
Tokico Illumina 5-way adjustable front struts
KYB Gas-adjusts rear shocks
Rear cross member slotted for camber adjustment
Experimental Engineering T/C Kit
Solid Steering Rack Mount
N/A Z32 wheels with 225/50 Yokohama S.drive tires
1/2" spacers up front with longer studs
RabidChimp Rear Seat Latch Brace
Tinted Windows

Audio:
Pioneer head unit w/auxiliary plug routed under the center console
Pioneer 3/4 way speakers that sound AMAAAZING
450w Rockford Fosgate punch 4-channel amp
12" Audiopipe subwoofer powered by a 350w Pioneer 2-channel amp
It's loud and clear all the way up to ear bleed levels

And here's a couple pics of what it currently looks like:

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In my next installment I'll go over my plans for the car, including why the word "Turbo" is in the thread title. :cool2:

Post Merge


Now, my plans for the car. As some of you may know I own a little company called Experimental Engineering. I've always been mostly a 510 guy but I currently build a couple things that fit S12s. I want to expand my offerings for this chassis. I'd been looking for a cheap SE for quite some time as I really wanted a car on hand for use in developing parts. There are several local S12s I could borrow for development but there's nothing like having one of your own on hand all the time. This car is also going to be my driver most of the time so I'll be highly motivated to develop parts that make it faster.  <_< Anything and everything that I build for this car has the potential to become a production part.

The first thing I'm going to do is swap an FS5R30A transmission into the car. My future plans exceed the torque capacity of the 71C trans. The transmission in the car now is broken.

The next likely project is making the rear suspension fully adjustable for camber, toe, and track width (poke) while moving the pivot points up to lower the rear roll center and reduce the camber curve. I've had a plan in my head for this for a few years and a fully adjustable rear suspension crossmember is a product I'd like to produce for the S12 and Z31.

At the same time I will do either rear coilovers or adjustable perches with 5" race springs or whatever is a good fit. I want to be able to buy springs in 25 pound increments and set the ride height wherever I want.

The front will get coilover springs using modified SE struts with my own upper perches developed for 510 use.

Adjustable lower control arms and T/C rods will likely come next.

I'm going to need swaybars to complete the suspension and will likely just buy a set. It's not worth the effort to make my own.

The car is going to get fast, so a full roll cage is in order to stiffen the chassis and hopefully keep me alive should I stuff the car. In addition to street use I intend to run track days, do a little drag racing, and hopefully hill climb the car on occasion.

Five point belts and a set of Recaro seats will probably go into the car at the same time as the cage. 

I'll have to pick up another R200LSD, or buy an ARB air locker for the front of my Pathy wheeler so I can pull the Nismo LSD unit out and swap it into the S12.

At that point the chassis should be pretty well sorted and it'll be time to start on the motor.  :yay!:

The logical first thing  to do to the engine is build a high capacity Competition Oil Pan similar to the ones I produce for VG510s and Z31Ts. VGs cannot tolerate any amount of oil starvation. The S12's saving grace is that it's front sump so there isn't far for the oil to go when the car experiences it's highest snap G - at corner entry. A baffled pan is a requirement on a corner-bending mid sump VG510 or a well sorted rear sump Z31T. The downside to the front sump layout is that hard launches with serious power can send most of the oil to the rear of the pan uncovering the pickup. I do not know at what point this becomes critical as I don't know of any serious turbo VG S12s. I'm going to need to add a turbo oil drain fitting and a temp sensor bung to the S12 pan, might as well add a couple quarts and a diamond trap to make it full race while I'm at it. :yes:

The initial motor 'build' will involve turbocharging the stock VG30E using Z31T injection components and turbo on a set of top mount turbo headers of my own design. I'm going to locate the turbo at the right front corner of the engine using up part of the battery's stock location. This gives the shortest practical intercooler plumbing since VG throttle bodies are always on the driver's side. I love my air conditioning and have all the plumbing worked out so none of the stock components except the battery and airbox have to be moved. I intend to run 12psi as that's the upper limit of stock Z31T stuff which is what most people would likely use if they bought a set of these headers.

Distant future: Down the road a ways I'm going to build a serious turbo VG engine with the goal of 400hp to the ground on pump gas. It will use Z32 based fuel injection with some trickery from HKS. Other than pistons I have all the major parts for this engine build. This motor is why I need a 30A trans. I'll talk more about this in a year or so if all goes well. 

My goal is to have the car to this point of it's development (VG30E+T) by Summer so I can enjoy it during the nice weather rather than working on it. I already have most of the expensive parts to do all of the above. This is a really fast/aggressive build plan, the shortest time frame I've ever tried to achieve building something like this. It's also the first time I've laid out a plan before I even bought the car. I know exactly what I want to do and which components I want to use. I've been thinking about many of these mods since Dennis bought the S12 and have worked out most of the details in advance. I will take lots of pics and try to keep this thread up to date as I'm working on the car. I'm self employed and whenever possible S12 development is going to be at the top of my to do list. Wish me luck. 
WonderingravenJan 9, 2013, 9:51 am · #2

Sweet deal.
Love to know more about the turbo setup when you get it done.
...and more about the R30A's fitment.

VG33ERGazelle?Jan 9, 2013, 9:56 am · #3

A car with a legacy! And it couldn't have gone to a more capable or dedicated owner. I look forward to this build, and the products that will inevitably come from it. I'd be interested in a 'competition' oil pan, the vg33er is a torquey little sonofa and I get decent nose lift at launch. I haven't suffered any starvation under near factory power, but I'll be cranking the boost with a smaller pulley during the rebuild.

Anyway, can't wait to see this thing come to shape!

Unleashedrb200sxJan 9, 2013, 10:39 am · #4

Really glad to see you're into s12 david ! I was looking to your carb convertion 2months ago but here in quebec weather constantly changing all my friends even some with 510 said to me not to do it so i plan to put a pathfinder intake because it will give me a better air flow . Because we all know that our intake is the worst for vg but the smallest one ,anyway i'm really looking foward to that turbo convertion hope it won't need a core parts because its a pain in the ass down here to spot old cars all the scrapyard shipped them to the metal price cost

Dom

I_heart_VVLJan 9, 2013, 11:55 am · #5

This is going to rock. Although I don't plan on going turbo in my car, I may end up changing my mind if this goes well! :D
Z32 EFI sounds sweeeeeet as fuck too I've always heard of it, but never found any hard info.

Good luck!

sunny1600Jan 9, 2013, 12:54 pm · #6
The next likely project is making the rear suspension fully adjustable for camber, toe, and track width (poke) while moving the pivot points up to lower the rear roll center and reduce the camber curve. I've had a plan in my head for this for a few years and a fully adjustable rear suspension crossmember is a product I'd like to produce for the S12 and Z31.

At the same time I will do either rear coilovers or adjustable perches with 5" race springs or whatever is a good fit. I want to be able to buy springs in 25 pound increments and set the ride height wherever I want.

The front will get coilover springs using modified SE struts with my own upper perches developed for 510 use.

Adjustable lower control arms and T/C rods will likely come next.

I'm going to need swaybars to complete the suspension and will likely just buy a set. It's not worth the effort to make my own.


Hi David,

good plans and I am deffo keeping an eye out for the mods you are going to make. Interested in the rear adjustment possibilities since I have it quite sorted on the front with the BC coilovers but the rear I cannot adjust anything, which is unfortunate.

Will keep an eye out for this on your FB and when I pop on here.
turbo-s12Jan 9, 2013, 4:56 pm · #7

This is gunna be an awesome build! Would def be cool if u started to sell modded rear crossmembers id buy one for sure.

Mr.510Jan 10, 2013, 12:22 am · #8

Thanks for the kind words everybody. I'm really excited to not just have an S12 to play with, but to have THIS S12 to play with. :) I'd been trying to buy a beat up local SE for ~$1200 and  I'm soooooo glad that deal fell through! If I'd bought that car last week there's no way I could have ended up with this one.

I will document everything I do to the car in this thread and possibly spin-off "How To" articles of some projects as well. I really want to start on the car right now but sadly it will be at least two or three weeks before I can even pull the trans.

Mr.510Mar 6, 2013, 4:40 am · #9

After searching for a 30A transmission or parts for more than a month I decided that I really needed to just get the car on the road so I can enjoy it. I traded some 510 parts to a friend for a used S12 71C trans with 80-some thousand original miles and a brand new 11 pound Fidanza aluminum flywheel:

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My friend had picked up a complete S12 motor/trans/injection swap the night before I got the trans from him. He sent me a text to see if an S12 71C trans would work with my VG510 kit. It does not as it's shorter than the Z31 71C trans the kit was developed for. When I picked the trans up I took a tailshaft plug as he'd said he needed to return the one that was in it to the guy he got it from. It was just a torched off driveshaft. Well, it wouldn't come out! We had to beat on it with a hammer as it was really stuck. When it did come out I got a sinking feeling in my stomach... it was rusted in! :( We decided that I'd take the trans home and see if it was OK, and would trade back if it turned out to be junk. When I got it home and tipped the tail down without the plug this ran out:

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It had about two cups of rusty water in it. I pulled the tailshaft housing and the bell housing off and found that the input shaft and countershaft front bearings had been submerged in water. The trans had been cleaned at a pressure washer or something and stored standing on it's bellhousing with water inside:

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I cleaned up the gears with a wire brush and figured I'd replace the two front bearings as they must be ruined. I had a rebuild kit for the 71C trans in my Hardbody on hand and was going to use parts from it and then replace them later. After a thorough cleaning in the parts washer and some compressed air I found that the bearings were not damaged at all. No pits or discoloration in the races or balls and they both spin free and quiet. I did find that there was some micropitting on a few teeth of the countershaft gear:

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This was not caused by corrosion, it's a type of gear wear that's fairly common on surface hardened gears. From what I've read I think it's more likely to happen if the heat treat isn't done just right. I decided I'd go ahead and put the trans back together and see if it worked OK. Nothing to lose except some time if it turned out to be noisy as I could still trade back.

 

 
Post Merge


The next day we put the S12 on the lift at a friend's work to swap transmissions. When I drained the oil it left a "debris field" in the drain pan:

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And this is the magnetic drain plug:

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I pulled the trans and took the front bearing retainer plate off as the one on the "new" transmission was broken where the T/O sleeve slides on it. This is what was left of the countershaft bearing:

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I swapped that plate onto the "new" transmission and then pulled the clutch and 16.5 pound flywheel I'd lightened for Dennis when it was his car. I don't know how many miles the car had been driven since we did the 5 speed swap but the rear main had started seeping in that time so I replaced it and also filled the gap between the RMS housing and the oil pan saddle to prevent corrosion and help to minimize the chance of a future oil pan gasket leak into the bell housing. This is Toyota's FIPG silicone, many say it's the best gooey gasket available:

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I installed the Fidanza aluminum flywheel with thin AN-type flat washers and Loctite on the bolts. You can also see the fresh dab of grease to keep the pilot bushing happy:

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My pic of the clutch didn't come out, but it's the Nissan factory Z31 Turbo clutch we'd installed with the 5 speed swap and it still looked almost like brand new. I Loctited the pressure plate bolts as well. I put the "new" transmission in and took a couple pics that show the custom transmission crossmember I made when we did the 5 speed swap:

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I had used the center bar for one of my 510 Bolt-In 5 Speed Crossmembers cut down and a couple pieces of 1/2 x 2" steel flatbar. It hangs forward a looooong ways from the mounts in the tunnel but I can hang on it and bounce up and down and nothing flexes so I think it's fine even long-term. The S12 floor is much beefier than a 510's. You cannot get away with crap like this on a 510 as it will rip holes the size of your fists out of the floor in short order!

Expecting the transmission to be noisy due to the micropitting on the countershaft input gear I put half a bottle of Hilton's Hy-Per Lube in and topped it off with 85W90 conventional gear oil. The car we'd sourced the 5 speed swap parts from had a black interior where mine is brown-grey so the shift boot bezel didn't match. I found a mint brown-grey shift boot bezel with nice boot as well as perfect condition under boots at Pick N Pull about a month ago so I put those in as well. We set the car down and it was time for a test drive... to my favorite diner in Georgetown so I could buy my buddy dinner as a thank you for use of the lift:

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As I'd expected it might be the trans was kinda loud but it shifted perfectly. Even the 2nd gear synchro functions like brand new! I drove the car around on errands and stuff for a couple days and made a few speed runs late at night with Dennis. The noisy trans made me nervous so I had not hammered on the  car in the bottom couple of gears because I didn't want to blow it up. On the second day I was driving it I noticed that the transmission noise went away momentarily when I swerved around a speed bump. Hmmm, something was rubbing! It turns out that when I hurriedly made the transmission crossmember I didn't end up with the flat center part where the isolator attaches perfectly level. The left isolator bolt was hitting the crossmember's exhaust clearance hump and transmitting noise into the chassis! I guess the old transmission must have been bolted to it just exactly right and it didn't hit before. The next evening I made a spacer that fits between the crossmember and isolator to provide more clearance and the transmission is now just about silent. 
:yay!:
The best part is that I can finally drive my car! As expected the motor revs much more freely with the light flywheel and shifts probably take half as long as with the previous setup. Shifting is like flipping a toggle switch between gears. Whenever the weather is decent I'll try to shoot a video that shows how quickly it revs and shifts now.
turbo-s12Mar 6, 2013, 9:13 pm · #10

Thats a nice tranny crossmember..

silvertonMar 7, 2013, 3:47 am · #11

The car is a lot more fun to drive with the fidanza!  Amazing what 5 pounds off the drive train can do to the enjoyment.

Mr.510Mar 24, 2013, 1:22 am · #12

It is WAY more fun with the light flywheel. Much more direct feeling. It dropped a full second 0-60 over the 16.5 pound flywheel that was in it previously. (Which was about a pound and a half lighter than stock.) The only downside I've noticed (that bugs me) is the car has always had a miss while on cold enrichment. Where previously it just stumbled and went kinda flat now it beats the crap out of you! It's like rapid-fire kicking the throttle pedal making the car lurch. So I guess now I need to figure out that miss. lol It runs perfectly once it's warmed up. Coming off a big sweeper freeway ramp at ~70mph where the car used to be just slightly loose and would barely slip the inside tire WOT now it's really loose and lights the inside tire for real. Needs moar LSD!