Bart's Updated Suspension Developments

well since my old post was getting so huge i decided i would start a new one and keep it better organized...this one will be locked but i will start a new one so you can ask any questions

so far i have the rear all done minus the camber and toe adjustment which i am int he process of finishing/ which i can get new crossmember bushings for about 25each i believe.. dealers list them for about 44bucks each

so to start off here are the pics of what i have

REAR COILOVERS
to start with i am using 12inch springs that are avaiable in 250, 350, 450 rates
i had to modify the rear control arm by cutting off the stock nipple that the coil used to sit on and in its place i bolted a plate that had a ground control sleeve welded to it.
(in the pic the sleeve is just tacked into place but its already welded all the wayaround when i finished it )

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/243000-243999/243105_159_full.jpg

this is the spring and sleeve/collar

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/243000-243999/243105_157_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/243000-243999/243105_158_full.jpg

here is the setup ion the car NOTE:on the final setup the sleeve is actually welded @ about 15degrees toward the front of the car so that the spring and sleeve are better lined up then they are in this pic

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/243000-243999/243105_167_full.jpg

i also have welded on a bracket where the stock location of the shock bolt hole on the control arm. this bracket allows you to bolt the shock inot place lower to the ground. this is needed so when you lower the car via the collar there will be no possibility of the spring poping off the perch/collar when the suspesion is fully extended...
i dont have a pic yet, soon to come

Now to move onto the camber and toe adjustment
note all control arm bushings will be replaced with teflon lined heim joints the heim joint pictured is just one i had laying around

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/243000-243999/243105_210_full.jpg

REAR CAMBER/TOE:
this will entail me to cut off the stock toe adjustment that sits on the control arm bracket closest to the diff and rewelded it on the outer control arm bracket with a 90 degree turn. this will allow me to adjust the camber a few degrees.

here the stock toe adjustment

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/243000-243999/243105_209_full.jpg

heres where it will be welded on the outer control arm bracket

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/243000-243999/243105_211_full.jpg

As far as the toe adjustment, when i weld on the heim joint on the control arm when its closest to the diff i will weld a threaded sleeve ont he control arm that the heim joint will screw inand out of. this will allow you to adjust the toe as needed..

FRONT COILOVERS:
basically the setup has 2 different variants in which a 5-10mm wheel spacer will be needed to use this setup

1st variant:
basicaly this will be a coilover setup without camber plates(unless you plan on doing some major auot-x you really dont need the camber plates. even if you lower the front 1-2inches the camber is slightly affected so tire wear wont be a prob

for this setup i will cut off the bottom perch on the strut housing and weld on a ring that the ground control sleeve will rest on.. then i will use a 7inch spring also avaiable in 250, 350,and 450rating along with a 3inch helper spring. the helper spring is needed so that when the suspension is extended fully the spring wont be completly loose and bouncing side to side off the strut housing. the top strut mount and top perch wil be retained and a small adapter plate will be welded on the top spring perch to keep the helper spring in place..

heres the rough setup in the car

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/243000-243999/243105_216_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/243000-243999/243105_212_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/243000-243999/243105_213_full.jpg

2nd Variant:
this will basically be the exact same as variant 1 except that the top strut mount and perch wont be used but rather a camber plate. this setup will be alot more harsh in the way the car will translate road noise and bumps as the 1st...

TENSION RODS:
for these i am completly getting rid of the stock rubber bushing and replacing the bushings with a heim joint. i will need to cut off the first part on the tension rod that is threaded and re die it to the proper pitch to use the heim joint. then on the tension rod bracket i will need to drill open the hole larger and then drill a whole thru the side of the barcket so i can use my high tension bolt to hold everything in place

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/243000-243999/243105_217_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/243000-243999/243105_218_full.jpg

i'll update pics and info as i go

I'll take the tensions rods. Hook it up!

I'll take the tensions rods. Hook it up!

once i get them on the car and tested for at least 200miles(thats like 3-4days) i'll get a set made for you

How much where the coil overs and how much work am i looking at. :kicknuts:

well price wise i have to sort that out still but as far as work al you would need to do is to switch the rear arms or whole arm/crossmember depending on how extensive of the kit you want... but it will not require and fabbing or modding by anyone other then just swapping things out

I just recently installed a set of solid aluminum rear crossmember bushings, and polyurethane control arm bushings. That made the rear feel so much more planted. It is now much easier to tell where the limit of adhesion is.

Were those aluminum crossmember pieces from a 240sx kit? More info on that would be awesome.

No, the crossmember bushings are for a Z31 300ZX. You can find them here:
http://www.thespecshop.com/store.asp

Don't bother with the aluminum diff mount, it doesn't fit the S12.

hmm for a daily driver i would stay away from these.. if you plan at all to get any of my suspesnion that will have the heim joints and then get these as well you may end up with fractures near the mounts on the unibody.. thats why im staying away from getting these.. we need some flex to prevent problems especially on daily driven cars, but for a race car these are perfect..

I'm heading towards making this car a full time autocross/hillclimb car, so that would involve seam welding everything and installing a roll cage that ties in to all of the suspension mounting points. The chassis on these cars are a bit flexier than I would like. I hear your argument, and agree that solid bushings are not for everyone. However, I do think with a minimal amount of prep work, ie. reinforcing, these can be used on a street car with very stiff suspension without incident They do transmit a bit more noise into the cabin, but it's barely noticeable.

i added some pics of the tension rods on the car and also a basic look at how my coilovers will look

bart I like the eazy install but are you shure the pivot point will work? plus wont the rod run into the ends of the opening??? this could be cool but I want o make sure everythign works out ok. T3 was developing a tension rod replacement that would just bolt into the stock location. If it helps at all. your way might be cheeper and easire though??? if it works?

the ends are rated to 15000lb so they should hold but like i said i will run them on my car for a while and put them throw some bumps and curbs and see what happens

now did you just bolt that right on the end or did you have to have it cut down and rethreaded? and does it move freely when off the ground?

are you referring to the heim joint...?

sorry I guess that wasn't worded very well. did you just attach the heim joint to the stock end of the tension rod or did you have to have the tension rod cut down and rethreaded for the heim joint to thread on? if it had to be cut down why did you leave it so long? why not cut it down enough so that the mounting bolt could be infront of the old mounting plate? instead of having the tension rod go through the old mounting hole and bolting behind it. sorry just trying to get an idea of things. thanx

ya i cut off the threaded part and then rethreaded it... and i made it go past the stock mounting hole becuse if i where to make a bracket that bolted to the original housing it would take alot of work and more $$ the way i made it it uses the integraty of the stock tension bracket which is quite beefy

Hey Bart, check this page out: http://z31.com/coilover.shtml

The rear coilover setup design they did was to put the threaded collar on the top perch, instead of the bottom perch on the control arm. Doing it that way would eliminate the angle problem you were having, correct? I just happened to see this and thought it was interesting. Thought I would share, and am interested in your thoughts on it.

Hey Bart, can you give me sum info on the coilover kit? part numbers so I can fab one up, or a price through you for the parts. Any info would be greatly apperciated. Thanks

Hey Bart, check this page out: http://z31.com/coilover.shtml

The rear coilover setup design they did was to put the threaded collar on the top perch, instead of the bottom perch on the control arm. Doing it that way would eliminate the angle problem you were having, correct? I just happened to see this and thought it was interesting. Thought I would share, and am interested in your thoughts on it.

well the angle prob is just that i didnt for see it but i already fixed it by welding the perch on at a angle.. and when placing the perch on top you still dont get rif of the prob of the coil slipping out when the arm fully extends.. i have found a way to solve this, by modifying the arm slightly so no need for a rattly chain.. oh and try adjusting the height with the prech on top pita let me tell ya

i have a question, and instead of opening a new thread I figured I'd post here 'cause it's relevent. Anyway, are springs interchangeable, 'cause there's "universal" springs, and I was wondering if any would fit? Also, what rates are you using bart, front/back?

Most coilovers and coilover kits use the same diameter springs, so yes, those would be universal.

but I mean could i use a set of four springs made for a different car on my 200 and only worry about rates, of there other factors involved?

Do you have coilovers or a coilover kit? If not, then no, you can't really just take springs off any car. You can take springs off of select Nissan vehicles, as have been posted here many times - 280ZX and Z31 300ZX. If you do have coilovers/coilover kit, then there's no point in taking springs from another car. You can just call up Ground Control or other places and tell them you want, for example, an 8 inch spring with a 400lb/in rate. I hope this answers your question, because I'm a bit confused by it.

Bart - will you have pics or a description of how you're modifying the rear arms to not over extend without using a limiting strap? I'm interested in your ideas. Thanks.

Bart - will you have pics or a description of how you're modifying the rear arms to not over extend without using a limiting strap? I'm interested in your ideas. Thanks.

yes.. i will have many for all to see

but I mean could i use a set of four springs made for a different car on my 200 and only worry about rates, of there other factors involved?

yes and no.. it all depends on the rates.. i am using 10in 250rate springs but they will only work if you have the collars to attain the correct ride height

oh okay. Sorry if I confused you, I was just wondering if I could buy a set of Eibach springs for a 280zx and have them fit. i guess not. Thanks though. Bart, do you know when you'll be able to sell those coilovers?

i know i have said this a milion times.. soon,.. im actually finishing the extension for the shock mount so you can lower the car without worry of the spring poping off. it should be finished up thurs

:banger: Awesome news! Can't wait to see your progress!

Hi Bart,

Wondering if there was any point in placing a wedge under the spring mount to get the spring closer to be in the right angles?

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/243000-243999/243105_167_full.jpg

This pic has a larger angle, you have any pics of it at ride height?

Looking at this for the rally car now, would be nise to play with rear spring rates and ride heights.

what free length springs are you using too?

cheers
Michael

bart, your tension rod setup is virtually the same as S13 - onwards.

for interest's sake, how close are they size-wise to s13 adj. tension rods?

Hey bart. Once you finish the coilover kit I'll have my shop buy a few so we can have them in stock. Also have you made a strut tower brace for the se's? I could just do the s13 thing but I would rather have a custom one. It gives the car more character.

If you need an se I could drive over sometime in the future.

If you need an se I could drive over sometime in the future.

now that would be sweet