Has anyone done an RB series into an S12?

just wondering.

the FJ's over 20 years old and parts will be hard to come by soon. i was thinking that is ever i had to change the engine, i would but an RB series in (by that time the 26's will be cheap! :-P )

Hmm i'd like to know the same, i was considering a RB20 before i chose my motor but i'm still curious, i reckon it would but maybe have to move the radiator forward? From memory the S12 has a slightly shorter engine bay than the S13 so it may interfere. The S13 can take a RB happily but they all run thermos etc cos of the minimal engine/radiator gap.

john at rpsport said we'd eventually be getting rb mounts, but has anyone seen him post since the switchover to the vb boards? if someone did it, it would be all custom at this point and time.

I thought I remember somebody trying to put an RB into one of the S12's, I think it was actually an RSX...I'll try to find the old thread...8)

Here is one way to look at this thread.
RB's have been installed in Z31's and Z32's
If it will fit in those cars it will fit in ours!
We have more underhood area than those.
The only posible drawback might be the exhaust routing (LHD drive cars only)

i run thermos anyway......

hhhhhmmmm

wasnt there an S12 in Oz that had the VG30DETT in it?

if that could be shoe horned in, anything can!!

I have seen a S12 with the RB20DET in it (I cant remember where tho), fits fine, only thing is it has to run an electric fan, but if your doing an engine change why not go electric

why would u go the RB series?? they r heavy and dont allow the car 2 b as balanced!, the way i looked @ it b4 i did my conversion was, wot r the pros and cons of the conversion?

RB
Heavy
Different
Getting old
2 more cylinders
getting harder 2 find parts 4
Wank factor
2 hard 2 work on whe something fails/breaks etc
Unbalances the car
Use more petrol

SR
Getting Old
Easier conversion
Every1 has 1
More a/m support
Weak bearings
2 less cyclinders
Looks more @ home
Weight over the front wheels
Square Bore and stroke
Wank Factor
Little less fuel

And the list goes on

my 2 cents

yo 4go10, whats with the l33t speak dude, you are not playing unreal t4 here, please for the ealse of all (this is an international comunity) try to type in complete sentences.

in other news, i think the RB would be a good engine for our cars, they can hold a good amount of horse power. and if you are worried about balance them stick with the origanal, it weighs less than an SR, or an RB. and with the proper rebuild strategy it could be built up to handle a good amount of horse power (300+)

Hey 4got10

RB HUGE horspower potential
Smokes just about anything! including moddified Supra's

CAN YOU SAY TOP FUEL DRAGSTER BURNOUTS boys and girls!....Ya dogs love the LOUD PEDAL!

Two more cylinder's 2.0 2.5 or 2.6 liter displacment more EX gas energy, bigger turbo(s) less lag..........more HP less stress.

SE's in the states come with VG and they handle pretty well! see them at the local auto cross and they run well!

RB25 are very common in the western states good parts supply (stock and aftermarket)

RB's get the chicks!!!!!!

Last but not least........The Cool factor (see above^)

Just my 10 cents

RB HUGE horspower potential
Smokes just about anything! including moddified Supra's
Kinda true, they make big power but IMHO toyotas JZ series motors are probably better, why not be different and shoehorn a 1JZGTE in there :) They should be dimensionally similar to the RB series so if they fit the JZ should fit to :). Downfall is the rarity of a manual trans to stick behind it :(

ya I see what you are saying,
In my opinion the 1jz would be a better full race strip engine(do to auto trans and complex swap tube chassis would be nice platform to start with) were as the rb25/26 with MT Is a great street fighter I have yet to see a supra take down a RB in a equal street race, but the super glide backed auto supra's are wicked on the strip (takes heavy mods to get that weight moving!!) given nearly equal power the Silvia RB should take it every time (not talking heavly moddified strip cars just mildly tuned street cars)

As for swapping I can look at my x-members but if the S-13 and S-12 have the same measuerments then the RB's X-member will also bolt up (to do this swap you need to use the RB x member as the engine mounts are located all the way to the edge instead of center but the control arm, steering etc mounts the same) the 1jz swap would be a tough nut to crack!

I disagree, it's true that the toyotas are generally quite bargy things that are usually auto but a manual JZA80 supra can get into high 13s stock, the beauty of the JZ motors is that you don't have to do heavy mods to get massive power. Even my mates JZZ30 (soarer TT) with it's only mods being cat back exhaust (woohoo) and 12psi gets 175kw@rw and runs high 13s, it's an auto too, another guy we know with a manual JZZ30 with similar mods beats him by half a length over the quarter. A 90 series Chaser Tourer V at the drift club runs 13.5 quarters with only boost increase and standard exhaust (cos it's alot lighter than the tanky soarer).
The RBs beating supras is more down to power to weight than anything IMHO. There are a million R33 skylines around in oz and although they are fast the soarers (which are common here to) are just as quick despite their porcine curb weights. As far as i know the JZ responds better to mods and has a little more power and torque stock to, it's downfall is the relative fragility of the two turbos (on the 1JZ) with them failing commonly over 12psi, the twin dump is a major restriction as is the twin exhaust (on a JZZ30) but thats easy fixed :)
Stock power of a later model NEO RB25DET is around 206kw and 333nm torque
The 1JZGTE is 206kw and 378nm of torque
You can discount the power figures though (every high output jap motor is 206 kw funny that...being the maximum they are supposed to have)
But the weight of the R33 GTS-t is 1390kg, and even the R34 is 1410kg
The soarer on the other hand is around 1600kg....given the same general quarter mile times seen from similarly modified soarers and GTS-t i can only say that the 1J is a much stronger engine to be able to haul the soarers lard arse to those speeds. Anything a RB25 gets swapped into like a S12 will also be a mile lighter than the JZA80s you might have seen on the street, just imagine if you had a 2J in the car instead of a RB25 hehe.
I've read similar before but i don't remember where so i can't quote :(
Thats my 2c, knowing ppl who own both the R33 GTS-t and the JZZ30 i can say i like the soarer better,it's quick for a tank :)

well for starters i dont think id ever put something non nissan into the S12. sacrilege baby. i dont mind going the other way though, any other car and put an nissan engine in, etc.

i wouldnt put an sr20 in cuz ive had one before (GTi-R) and though the engine felt ok, it didnt feel as strong as the FJ does. I eventually blew it up from crappy tune but when i sold it the owner blew it up again with a better tune. so personally i wouldnt put one in.

for the peeps overseas, you really have to see what sort of numbers us aussies are getting out of these RB engines. 300rwkw is about the norm and the torque these things have is incredible. there are probably more RB series engines in australia than just about any other nissan engine and the thought of being able to put in a 25 or 26 can be so tempting that ive thought about starting up the project.

either way, im sure someone will do it by the time i put my hand in my wallet

NEB, Man I did not mean to hurt your Pro-Toyota ego or anything.
Like I said the JZ swap into a nissan would be a super hard swap for the average guy at best! I swapped in a 7MGTE into a 2wd toyota truck for a customer and that was not as easy as an RB swap to Silvia.

Without getting Super Technical.........You and I both stated it comes down to power to weigth ratio and at that point given equal or close to equal power the lighter car has the advantage.

Getting into what engine is better to modify, well that point is biased.
If you are a toyota guy you will say JZ. If you are a nissan guy you say RB.......I have an neo RB25 and the guy that talked me into going RB has a RB25/6 hybrid with 26 intake Q45 throttle body and 60-1 and it seamed to respond pretty well to mods!
I also have a friend that is doing the JZ swap into a Lexus and wants me to build the EX manifold for him and I am sure he would also say JZ

What it comes down to, at least for me is.......

JZ swap into s-12/13 next to impossible for your Average Guy!

RB swap could be possible for s-12 if X-member bolts up and although hard it would not be impossible for the Average Guy!

Anyway back to the original post I will be going to the local wrecking yard on saturday.
I will bring one of my x-members for the S-13 and see if it will bolt up to the frame and control arms of the S-12. If it will then your in, at that point you will need to look into a things like ......

Do you want to run it into the stock tranny, the S-12 has a short tailshaft shifter location and different housing bolt pattern, you would need to adapt it to the CA tranny using the RB bellhousing or if you want you can run the rb tranny and take out the center console, cut a new hole in the floor and fab a boot and block off plate for the console to fit the shifter (the RB shifter like the SR shifter sits back farther on the tranny and this is what I did to install my SR into my D21 truck) you will also have to fab up a new tranny mount, maybe not the whole thing just were the tranny mounts to the stock x-member (just like the s-13) wiring and piping would also be simalar to the s13 etc.....I will keep you posted on the x-member mounting

Haha fair enough, i'm not really pro anything but each to their own, alot of engine swaps are beyond the average to joe i guess, i was considering a 1JZ with auto into a spare S12 shell for a while cos i thought it'd be a cheap drag weapon but i never looked into which 1J i would have to use (there are 3 different sump placements to choose from etc). Keeping things nissan restricts choice somewhat, hmm what about a twin turbo Q45 :D hehe, nah i'm just dreaming although i have seen a 1UZFE twin turbo in a ST175 celica over here :|

Twin turbo Q45 hehe! :D that would be sweet! or maybe an Infinity Indy engine!!! I have a web page that is selling three of them! they don't list a price though! I wonder why???? :(

Well just to update you guys I went out the wrecking yard with the S13 x-member and my note book.

What I found is that although the two are close the S12 x-member is far enough off (The suspension mounting points and the bolt pattern were it attatches to the car are different) that any modification that would need to be done it would have to be done to the S12 x-member.

However since we know that the S13 and the S12 have the enigne mounts, mounting position (relative to the car) and engine mounts (to the block) in common, and that the R33 x-member mounts to the S13 exactly the same as the stock S13/14 x-member you can use the S13/14 and the R33 x-members to JIG and modify the S12 x-member to use with the RB.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid124/p44f1f789a0fe3d72102fb1973905cae5/f817dbaa.jpg
The above picture shows the difference between the S13/14 x-member (lower picture) and the R33 (upper picture). Now if you take the S13/14 x-member and build a square jig (using heavy wall square tubing at least 1" or 1.5" x .120" to .156" wall thickness or thicker and about 3/8" x 2" flat bar on the outside (for the frame mounting holes) and build an engine mount pad that bolts to the center of the engine mount platform (using th 3/8" x 2" flatbar) you can use this to center the S12 x-member to drill the outer mounting holes (since they are different then the S13/14/R33) and modify it to use the RB points.

Once you have the S12 holes drilled you can now install the R33 x-member to the S13/14 outer mounting holes (obivously the engine mount platform will not be close). Now building from your jig make a new mounting pad from the jig to the R33 engine mounting platform point (making sure to use plenty bracing to keep it solid!!). Once you are done and the jig has cooled, remove the R33 x-member and get the S12 x-member ready to install. using grinder or plasma cutter remaove the old engine mounting platforms grind to rough finish, and install into the jig.

Using at least 1/8" flat bar steel make a new engine mount platform using the old pad as your template (just the the flat part not the sides of the platform). Bolt this to the R33 mounting point on the jig. Now using the stock 'R33' platfom as a guide fabricate the sides and back of the platform out of at least 1/8" flat bar steel (using craft paper and scissors to make a pattern will make this easy, then tranfer the pattern to the metal).

After welding the new platforms, let the x-member cool bolted in the jig (cool to the touch). After it has cooled down remove it and Install it to the engine and test fit it to the car. Modify the x-member now if needed. Once you are satisfied with the fit remove finish grinding and paint!

This should get the rear of the engine and tranny placed were it needs to be. But as far as the front clearance that you will need to figure out as the install goes, I have not measerured the engine bay's but the S12 does look shorter then my S13 and running, at least electric pusher fans will probably be necessary!

This is the exact same way I have used to make/modify many engine mounts and x-members. Hope it helps!