RB20det

as far as i know you'd be the first (atleast in Club-S12) to have a RB series engine in a S12.. so far the swaps i've heard of are KA24DE, CA18DET, SR20DET, CA20ET (custom engine by Alex), and finally, my favorite, VG30DETT

I'll just make my own Engine....VQ33DERTTi .... should push a few HP..but...i dont see it as possible, cause it would prob cost upwards of $15k...at that rate..just get an RB series, and turn the Turbo WAYYYYYY up! lol..just a thought

i have done the rb into s13 and s12, the cross members are alot different, i made my own power steering out of early skyline parts.

if you want pics drop ur emails here and i will send them out as i get a chance
i study full time and work 2 jobs so i dont have alot of time

i'd love to see! [email removed]

Hey, IB6UB9, that would be great. Any pics or anything would be wicked.

Thanks Mate
[email removed]
Allan

you want understeer to drift

You want the front to slide from understeer, then big power to bring the rear end around.

With a heavier front end and a light rear end, you can get the front plowing easily.

Drifting is basically the opposite of standard steering geometry.

Granted there is a limit to how much you want.

you want understeer to drift

You want the front to slide from understeer, then big power to bring the rear end around.

Hmmmmmmmmm....

Still doesn't quite add up to me... Most cars (FWD or RWD) when they have bad understeer, it tends to just get worse when you hit the gas. I know I'm probably wrong, but most of the time I've seen drifters whip the steering wheel hard getting into the corner getting it into a 4 wheel slide, then nailing the gas, not sliding the front tires (understeer) and then nailing the gas...

Someone please explain...

:burnout:

Alright, I think I get it now... 8)

Sometimes it just takes me a while to understand stuff... :bomb:

just bought 1985 200sx and am new here, seen some threads of some people that have seen or are finishing an rb20/25/26 in an s12. would like more information on how the swap has been done. would be cool sleeper/drifter in the northern U.S. :guitar: let me know!

Aren't the RB25 and RB26 engines bigger than the RB20 block? A friend of mine transplanted a RB20DET into his S13, and when I asked him why he didn't go for a RB25 or a Godzilla, he said neither of them would fit because they were longer & wider than the RB20 block.

It makes no odds to me - FOUR CYLINDERS BABY YEAH! - but I just wanted to offer that as a heads up, in case anyone's going to try and stuff Godzilla into the business end of their S12...I might be wrong, but I don't think it'll fit no matter what you do.

I hope I'm wrong. A RB26DETT-powered S12...ooh, feel the shivers run down your spine :)

what are the lengths of these motors? i've worked on some british cars with a 2 litre six and they apeer to be around 600 to 800mm long. then again the british sixes are a very simple engine compared to the incredible RB. (if someone can fit an 8 litre v10 into an american pt cruiser, then any motor could fit into any car. however undrivable it could be).

Aren't the RB25 and RB26 engines bigger than the RB20 block? A friend of mine transplanted a RB20DET into his S13, and when I asked him why he didn't go for a RB25 or a Godzilla, he said neither of them would fit because they were longer & wider than the RB20 block.

It makes no odds to me - FOUR CYLINDERS BABY YEAH! - but I just wanted to offer that as a heads up, in case anyone's going to try and stuff Godzilla into the business end of their S12...I might be wrong, but I don't think it'll fit no matter what you do.

I hope I'm wrong. A RB26DETT-powered S12...ooh, feel the shivers run down your spine :)all three are the same size.

all three are the same size.

Dammit, and to think I just spent money on a S14 halfcut when I could have gone and got myself a Godzilla.

Still, I'm having enough trouble getting the department of transport to okay a SR20 conversion. I don't think I'd ever get them to give Godzilla the thumbs up.

Sigh - typical government ignorance.

Dammit, and to think I just spent money on a S14 halfcut when I could have gone and got myself a Godzilla.
Priced a RB26DETT halfcut recently? Just buy a good car with the ammount of money a halfcut would cost you.
Aren't the RB25 and RB26 engines bigger than the RB20 block? A friend of mine transplanted a RB20DET into his S13, and when I asked him why he didn't go for a RB25 or a Godzilla, he said neither of them would fit because they were longer & wider than the RB20 block.
Like Magnum says they are all the same size, i've seen a few RB25 conversions in the flesh and several RB26 conversions in magazines. The RB25 powered car i checked out was a hyperdrive car from WA by the way, drift nats round 2 winner.
Still, I'm having enough trouble getting the department of transport to okay a SR20 conversion. I don't think I'd ever get them to give Godzilla the thumbs up.
From what i know of WA has more lenient engine size restrictions than other parts of oz, it's not possible to do a VG30DETT in NSW in a 910 but it was done legally in WA a few years ago. Unless the rules changed. Can't see why a competent engineer couldn't give you decent guidance though.

Priced a RB26DETT halfcut recently? Just buy a good car with the ammount of money a halfcut would cost you..

Yeah I did actually, I got a quote on a R32 GTR halfcut for $7900 delivered from Adelaide to my door (www.adelaidejap.com.au). I'm a big believer in doing things differently to everyone else, which is why I went for a S12 Silvia in the first place and not a S13 or S14. A RB26DETT-powered S12 would DEFINITELY be different, but I was under the impression the motor wouldn't fit. Oh well.

Like Magnum says they are all the same size, i've seen a few RB25 conversions in the flesh and several RB26 conversions in magazines. The RB25 powered car i checked out was a hyperdrive car from WA by the way, drift nats round 2 winner..

Was that the Hyperdrive purple Sil-80? I've seen Ken fang the living shit out of that car but I've never bothered to ask what was under the hood. If you mean Hyperdrive has a RB25-powered S12, I didn't know that but I'll be sure to ask them about it!

From what i know of WA has more lenient engine size restrictions than other parts of oz, it's not possible to do a VG30DETT in NSW in a 910 but it was done legally in WA a few years ago. Unless the rules changed. Can't see why a competent engineer couldn't give you decent guidance though.

WA is very lenient, yes, but only really for engine conversions that turn up a lot, i.e. 13BT's going into first generation RX7s (the project car I was originally planning, until circumstances intervened), V8s going into previously-V6 Commodores, RB's into S13s, that sort of thing. They've got no problem with the engine's capacity, since a SR20 is only 24cc larger than a CA20E, but they've got a problem with me wanting to go from an engine that makes 102hp to one that makes 217hp. The law in WA is that any engine conversion that adds 25% or more extra power needs an engineer's certification. I'm not sure if that applies to other states, but I imagine it would. Basically what's going against me is that nobody has approached the WA transport guys before wanting to do a SR20DET-powered S12, and so they seem understandably nervous about okaying an untested engine conversion. I can always say it worked for you, but you're in NSW and aren't overly likely to drop in for a chat :) After Xmas I'll be seeking out an engineer to walk me through what I'd need to do to ensure road legality, but until then I'm waaay too busy. I'll get it road legal, no question: if you can pass NSW's stringent bullshit, I can definitely get it past the WA guys. It's just a matter of how long it's going to take.

Nah the hyperdrive car is a S13, green silvia. I think the purple sil80 is SR powered.
In NSW it doesn't matter what the conversion is into as long as it's well done and doesn't go over any engine size/weight limits.
Engineer will be able to help you no end.
On my car i passed pretty much everything first go no probs. NSW is supposedly the toughest to pass.
Oh yeah if you want to be different but don't want to shell out $8k for a half cut use a manual 1JZGTE :). Still not cheap due to the price of the manual versions but hey.....Well that's what i'd do anyways hehe, either that or a 2JZGTE, probably less than 8k but not common either. With the manual R33 boxes being $1500 or so on top of your GTR cut almost anything is a cheaper option tho.

Sorry guys, next time I'll just reply instead of writing a novel.

Nah the hyperdrive car is a S13, green silvia. I think the purple sil80 is SR powered.

I've seen the green silvia in the shop, never seen it being driven though. Again, didn't ask what was under the hood - must take more of an interest!

Oh yeah if you want to be different but don't want to shell out $8k for a half cut use a manual 1JZGTE :).

I haven't got a problem with spending big dollars if I'm going to get a big result. That's what was so attractive about Godzilla - I could spend money on a SR20, more on getting it installed, and then more still on getting it up into the 300hp ballpark...or I could get a RB26. It'd work out cheaper to get a 300+hp SR20, but Godzilla...even the thought of it makes me smile. Still, I live and learn.

Cheers Neb.

This thread is geting long, like a

Pipe

Dream

.

http://www.club-s12.org/board/showthread.php?p=38398#post38398

My god you have to get an engineer to sign off on "some" engine swaps. That sucks. In the US as long as the car meets emissions for either the year of the car or year of the engine all is well. But you get stuff that we want see.

This thread is geting long, like a

Pipe

Dream

.

Are you implying somthing ay....?

My god you have to get an engineer to sign off on "some" engine swaps. That sucks. In the US as long as the car meets emissions for either the year of the car or year of the engine all is well. But you get stuff that we want see.

Provided your not a gumby with mechanical stuff, know the limits on engine sizes in certain states (there is a capacity to weight limit) and know the rules (ie don't remove the emmissions gear, have to have equal or better brakes than the car the motor came from etc) then getting engineers isn't very hard. It's a good idea, there are some dodgy people around. Although the government is more concerned with emmissions i feel, the cops are just interested in tickets though so it's proof against them (on that count at least...)

Ehh I think it's gonna get done, this RB in the S12, but I also think it's gonna be like the VG30ET in an S12, gonna take so much custom fabbing that unless you are good at custom fabbing, have an inside track with a shop, or rich, it won't be the best choice.

Our emmisions laws suck, it's not just about tailpipe emmissions, but they care what it LOOKS like underhood. I think it would make more sense to be concerned with how clean it is. With the right tools and some patience you can tune a performance car rather clean. Still, emissions laws are more of a revenue and political thing, powered by idealistic constituents and manipulative politicians.

powered by idealistic constituents and manipulative politicians.
Sounds like a bitch...:(

If the sr is a drop in. I say it will be easier doing an rb over the vg30et the rb is pritty mutch a push up in a s13. The vg30et mounts are in weard locations vs. a rb

...ie don't remove the emmissions gear...

or just get collector tags.

i was wondering if anyone has heard/know/seen anyone who has done this conversion, i am in the finishing stages of the conversion and was curious how other peoples efforts have gone.

as far as i know you\'d be the first (atleast in Club-S12) to have a RB series engine in a S12.. so far the swaps i\'ve heard of are KA24DE, CA18DET, SR20DET, CA20ET (custom engine by Alex), and finally, my favorite, VG30DETT
 
i\'d love to see some pics of the progress you\'ve made!
 
please keep us posted

someday the beginning letters of my engine will be RB and the ending letters and numbers will be 26DETT.  :P  :lick:  I too wanna see pictures.

Should fit pretty well, prolly have to run thermos instead of engine fan though.  What i\'d like to see is a 1JZGTE in a gazu, i considered using a spare stripped shell with a 1J as a drag car but we ended up putting a CA18DET in it.
Go the RB20, cheap power :)

i have some pics but they are much too large have to resize them

i have also added JIC coilovers, r32gts brakes, powersteering, kept a/c, hybrid fmic etc etc

what did you use for the mounts, we used the mckinney kit to fit the rb25 into the s12. have fun with the rb20, it\'s only a little nose heavy.

oh yeah, what did you do in the back with the jic\'s?

John
[url]www.rpsport.net[/a]

nose heavy makes it better for drift, that is the purpose of it
havnt done anything with the rear suspension yet
what do u suggest, also need LSD urgently

as for the mounts i am using a crossmemeber that we refabricated, no use of mckinney kits etc

shoot me some pics, if at all possible. We\'ve worked with 3 different configureations mounting the engine, id like to get a look at what you did.  You did nothing to mount the JIC\'s in the rear?

Please send pics to

[a href=\'mailto:[email removed]\'][email removed][/a]

Thanks
John

what i meant is that i havnt done anything with the rears yet, still looking at my options, just have the JIC at the front, any suggestions for the rear.
where would the best place to find some type of LSD for my 85 IRS hatch
ps. what other mounting configurations have you used.

Nismo sells LSD\'s, but I think if you haven\'t already, you might want to swap in the R200 diff...

probably the 180sx lsd would be best, based on the weight of the vehicle plus the rb20 (300hp top) the higher gearing in the dif is gonna do alot for you. Plus the it is a very beefy lsd.  Use a z31 mounting plate on the 180sx dif to mount it, adn get the 180sx halfshafts, and s12 halfshafts fabbed together at a driveshaft shop.

John

Hey Guys, I am looking at this conversion. There are a number of S13s in New Zealand running RB\'s and they run really well in our Drift series. As far as I know there is another RB s12 in NZ. I would be very very intrested in pics, and anything you can across as being really tuff to work out. iB6uB9, i see you are running power steering. Was your s12 fitted with power steering from factory, or have you custom mounted this set up? I would be keen to get info on this as well. Did either of you moddify the firewall? as far as I can tell it should fit without. someone told me that they heard of someone running A Toyota AW-11 radiator, as these are not very tall, and fit in the front of the radiator surrond....

Any pictures of mounts or anything at all will be very very helpful. Thanks please send to [a href=\'mailto:[email removed]\'][email removed][/a]

RB\'s have got to be the most cheapest versitile engine ever. AS for the diff, My s12 had a solid axel type diff, so I am currently setting up a toyota Hilux LSD diff, and also converting it Disc brake. Should be good.

Allan

a front heavy car is good for drifting?....... i am sorry but that doesn\'t make sense wouldn\'t the car understeer more? instead of being more neutral? don\'t get me wrong i am not having a go at you or anything i was just wondering how that could help drifting?

Well, I guess the theory is if there is more weight at the front, then there is less weight in the rear, making traction less. Alothough understeer will most likly be a factor, with a good suspention set up you should be able to work around it pretty easy. Its a bit like compering a S13 and S14. The 14 is a lot easier to loss traction than the s13. The s13 is prone to understeer from what I have read and seen.

Mr XXX

Oh, also guys, some one told me that to do the s13 to RB swap, a cerifro cross member is used, which bolts straight in. So on the theory, doe sanyone know the diffrence between  S13 and S12 cross member geography?

as far as i know you\'d be the first (atleast in Club-S12) to have a RB series engine in a S12.. so far the swaps i\'ve heard of are KA24DE, CA18DET, SR20DET, CA20ET (custom engine by Alex), and finally, my favorite, VG30DETT

to \"drift\" all 4 tires have to be sliding. Anything else is a power slide.

You basically want to understeer to keep the front end of the car pointing towards the exit of the turn through the entire movement.

Remember, the whole \"idea\" of drifting is to be able to slide a corner at a faster rate than you could apex the turn. If you come into a turn, slow down to take it, then just light up the tires under power on the exit - this is not a drift. To take a corner faster than the car can apex, you have to slide the front. With the front tires gripping, you\'re taking the wrong approach. Doing it this way, you have a pivot point. Applying power will make you rotate on that point - ie oversteer. This is where moderation comes into play. If you have severe understeer, the car will plow straight, which is bad. Moderate understeer, the car will half turn, then start to slip. You then use oversteer to keep the back end pushing you in the direction you want to go. When the understeer goes away, if you\'ve done everything right, the car will end up pointing towards the exit, and you power out. If you\'re trying to do it by just jerking the wheel to keep the front end where you want it, you\'ll invite counter rotation. Basically if you keep pushing the car in this state, you\'ll oversteer into a complete 360. You have to keep the momentum, or inertia in a constant arc. By going back and forth to correct, you\'re unloading and loading opposite tires on the back end.

When I say \"understeer first, then power\" I don\'t mean it\'s a 2 step process. You don\'t get the car to plow, then apply power. It\'s a smooth transition.

You angle the car properly coming in on the approach. As it starts to understeer and the front end loses its grip, you have to steer with the throttle.

It\'s hard to explain in words. Play with a Hot Wheels car, you might get an idea there.

:burnout:

Alright, I think I get it now...  8)

Sometimes it just takes me a while to understand stuff...   :bomb:

i aggree with mr.200, regardless of what may be popular belief i have driven s13\'s with their original engines and now with rb\'s and i find that the car is much better to drift with the extra weight up the front end

hmmmm have you ever heard of neutral steer its when the front and the back have the same slip angle thus if they have the same cornering stiffness they will both break loose at the same time. I do know that drifting is not just power oversteer. A car which has a understeer posture (putting Centre of mass further forward will increase this) will tend to want to yaw back to the direction it is travelling when it is sliding perhaps this is good for drifting i am not sure. however i was under the idea that a neutral steer car is desired for drifting as it does not tend to yaw in either direction. putting more weight forward won\'t result in a less Neutral Sterring car generally. once again i am not saying this is gospel but i have been doing alot of reading on the subject (have thesis on modelling suspension for a formula SAE car) and have been pondering  :wall:  about these problems in a physical sense.

I think the problem with a neutral car is just that ... it\'s neutral. It really comes down to driver preference I guess.

It\'s kind of like NASCAR in a way. NASCAR cars are set up to only turn left. The entire car is actually balanced that way. I\'ve got some pretty funny pictures of C&D trying to manhandle a Winston Cup car through a slalom.

Getting a car into a neutral slide isn\'t easy, especially at a high rate of speed. It takes an experienced driver in a car he\'s familiar with to do it properly. If your car has a natural tendency to initiate drifts, you can get some really visually impressive drifts.  

The thing is, drifting is a demonstration sport. What makes a car desireable for road holding and handling won\'t help you drift.

A neutral car would me a much better all around performer. You wouldn\'t want to race a car that has been set up for drifting on a street track.

..... later...

john

ok i\'m not going to get involved in the drifting debate as this is not the thread for it.

I have heard the rb20det has definately been done in australia, u just have to move the radiator. I would be very keen to see some pics plz to

[a href=\'mailto:[email removed]\'][email removed][/a]

thanks, i have one ca18det S12 Hatch, thinking of getting an FJ20et Notchback, unless rb20det seems like a better option (probably easier to find and cheaper in the long run for modifications)

This thread had some good info, before the drift arguement started. catchas

I am in australia and would like to know if anyone could send me some info and some pics of the s12 in australia that has had the rb conversion as i am interested in putting a rb25 in my 86 hatch and from the information that i have been given i have been informed that it is an easy conversion..

so any information and pics would be greatly appreciated.
[a href=\'mailto:[email removed]\'][email removed][/a]

thanx guys