old but still.....
no wonder mistubishi is in trouble (http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=83525&page=2&pp=15&highlight=geo+metro)
"They already denied my clutch at 10k (really didn't expect them to cover)"
"Hell, if a geo metro can handle an autocross, why can't an EVO? Is there something Mitsubishi is not telling us? How many factory defects are you (mistubishi) hiding in the EVO?
another thread of a"void"ing warranties (http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=82691)
Meanwhile look at what a wrx can do with some mods (http://www.neneons.org/vids/z06pussybig.wmv)...
although there's a story behind that I won't go into it. I think I'll be staying away from mitsu until they get their act together
reasons to buy an Sti instead of an EVo
This thread was saved without dates. "Around Apr 2005" is estimated from neighbouring threads.
to some degree ya but i have 2 buddies with them and htey have had no probs with the dealers.... and one clipped off the fastest 1/4 mile on the stock turbo ands less then 20psi.. noone else in the nation has done so.. and the car will hit a 10.99 or faster next season the the stock turbo with only a aem standalone, busher front mount, 880cc injectors,and 255lph pump.... i cant say i have seen a sti coming anywhere near that on the stock setup
i hate to bash but my buddies 350z with intake and exhaust walks a sti on a roll from 30mph-to 130mph.....there great for rally but thats about it....
Well I can't vouch for how fast this 350z or the driver of the Sti but isn't this the same 350z you walked on the highway or close to it? A stock Sti is faster than a stock evo anyway so an evo would've lost to him as well.
Anyway my point is that mitsu has kind of let go on this one. A guy on my block has one and his clutch is fried after 6k miles? How is that humanly possible? edit: oops Even reviewers said they could smell clutch from the evo when launching it. So to me
edit sorry wrong on price
28,499 (sometimes overmarked) car that might give
32,295 for a faster car that might not
:dontknow:
I'd still never buy a STi over a EVO given a choice (or unless it was crazy cheap hehe). But then again i'd probably never buy a new car anyways.
I have said it time and time again, and that's that the WRX is superior to the Evo. It's not about specs in particular, or Subaru's aftermarket and competition-friendly suervice attitude, or about price. It's the whole package.
There is no doubt in my mind that the Evo is a well-bred racing vehicle, with excellent parts off the showroom floor, but much of the overhead spent on the car could be better spent towards aftermarket, and the rigid warrantee issues only further its impracticality for all but the most dedicated full-time race teams. The bottom line is that Mitsu brought it to North America only after bailing on the 2G DSM turbo 4G63 because they were eating their shirts on the warranty woes from crankwalk, facing a number of class actions (many which have settled with stipulations that they not be discussed in any way whatsoever, hence the lack of publicity of these outcomes), and a basicinternal mismanagement of fiancial resources. All the while, companies like Toyota and especially Nissan were enjoying a rejuvinated line-up that included newer sports/performance vehicles with reasonable to great abilities.... and Honda was churning out the same steady sales it always has.
So Mitsu was left with failing sales... the Galant they had so hoped would save them did not, as the Altima, Camry, and even newer domestics beat it up in the sales. So here they were, dwindling profits, suddenly NO performance offerings in North America (meaning no sports image, the same thing Dodge was suffering from until Daimler bought it and created DC and it's new agressive stance).
So what they (MMNA) did, after stalling us with hints of Evo's possible North American offerings, to try to buy time and find a less-risky solution (i.e. some lesser sporty platform with less warranty risks and less expensive production costs), was give in and realize all they actually had WAS the Evo. So they grudgingly offered it to the North American market, fully-aware of the trend in American sport-compact racing. While Bart's buddy may have it alright with HIS dealer, the fact is, nine times out of ten, people are reporting that even mild enjoyment of the Evo's hallmark properties is resulting in what they term as a "restricted" warranty (i.e. voided).
WRX, on the other hand, came into North American sales under entirely different circumstances, and that fact is a powerful motivator behind Subaru's tolerance -- and even promotion -- of their cars used in amateur and professional racing alike, as well as street modding.
Subaru had been seeing slow but steady improvements in their North American sales, mostly with the Outback Sport and the Legacy, and they had been gaining a reputation for building a good yet affordable AWD car with a reliable driveline and a hardy engine moving it. Around this time, their more potent versions not offered in North America were starting to win WRC championships, displacing the Evo and Mitsubishi as the reigning WRC dominators. Their champion status became so successful that Mitsu's famous racecar driver even jumped ship to sail on the Subaru seas.
Subaru perhaps might have seen Mitsu's teasing us with hopes of Evo as an opportunity, or perhaps they were just getting more ambitious for North America with the sustained success of their WRX. Whatever the reason, they beat Mitsu to the punch, offering a genuine rally-proven vehicle, in nearly the same trim (I refer to the powertrain), and for an eyepoppingly affordable price. The car, despite its controversial looks, took the market by storm, and even reached out to people who were not typically looking for a "racecar". The fact that WRX can be bought in a wagon only further implies to the North American market that Subies are just doing "their usual thing", and that none of this is all that "surprizing". This of course shows confidence, which, paired with the proof of rally championship, very modest pricing, and an already excellent maintenance reputation, plus their extensive use of AWD in all their vehicles (something Mitsu is NOT known for in the least), bolstered their image well above and beyond Mitsubishi, who, even after releasing the Lancer (in anticipation of....) and then the Lancer Evolution, in North America, still was suffering gripes from the previous Eclipse platform, dwindling sales due to poor marketing, and maintenance reputation issues due to rediculous lack of quality control over production facilities.
So what you have is this:
Two cars. One is a natural "next step" for North American sales, and has already been a best-seller and professionally proven race platform of championship level... it's modestly priced, and also is backed by a good warranty and a service precident that is tolerant of attention to the car's performance attributes.
The other is a desperate attempt to salvage failing sales, try to regain some lost sports enthusiasm, and maintain a participation in major world sports venues (although certainly not in a winning form)... it could NOT be considered priced modestly, nor does the factory seem the least bit willing to repair anything that goes wrong with it (in general), so much so that they nitpick anything and everything in such a way that non-race related warranty issues could very easilly be denied under this vauge set of limitations.
As far as modified potential goes, both are actually about the same, give or take one detail or another, and certainly nothing that 2-4 grand of mods couldn't equalize between the two of them. So that only leaves the above as determining factors. In which case,
The WRX is the better car, built by a better company, for a better price, with a better service record and warranty support.
No more really need be said of it.
Pretty well informed post there, nice work.
I guess the WRX and EVO are considered differently here in oz. The WRX has been available in various forms in oz since 1994. After a slow start the car slowly became a cult hero, mostly due to every other cheap 'sports' car in oz was weak, the V8s were weak and often slower than the 6 cylinder versions of some popular sedans and the S14 although popular just didn't sell as well (probably due to rally success from subaru locally through the late Possum Bourne). The EVO has only ever come in as a grey import (we got the lesser 1.8L turbo 4wd GSR lancer) so i guess it has that exclusivity. It wasn't until the massively overpriced EVO 6 makinen came out in oz (at $80k) that there was a locally delivered EVO. They left the EVO 7 to the grey importers again and didn't release another EVO till the 8. Although the WRX and STi are capable cars they have lost a little popularity in recent years due to becoming a little more expensive, slower, heavier and the strong comeback of locally produced performance cars like the Commodore SS and the Falcon XR6 Turbo. The introduction of the EVO 8 (in limited numbers) at $61,990 vs the WRX STi at $56,630 means the less common EVO will always be more desirable. Also the local car reviews rate the EVO (and always have) as a far superior vehicle to the WRX and STi in terms of driving (especially the current model STi which has recieved some poor reviews locally lately). I have never heard about any of the other facets of new car ownership (warranty etc) locally so i can't comment on them though.
Having said all that subaru is very strong in australia and has been since the 90s, the Subaru Outback, Forester, Imprezza and Liberty (Legacy to you lot) are some of the more common midsized japanese cars around. I noticed when i was in Hawaii last an almost complete lack of any Mitsubishis, locally Misubishi isn't as strong as it has been in the past but if you went for a day without seeing at least 10 Magnas or Lancers/Mirages(we make and sell them to the US as Diamante's) you mustn't have left the house.
So i'd dissagree with your final statement.
The EVO is the better car, built by a a company that is a bit down at the moment and really needs a turn around (ala Nissan a few years ago). Subaru knows what to give it's customers though and since the US has been wanting the WRX for over 10 years and with no previous (and alot of people think better) versions of the WRX to compare it to and a good price it's an easy sell.
In the end i'd rather drive a S14a or a S15 :) so meh
I'm sure everybody knows the backstory of Fantasy stories (e.g. Star Wars), which describes two paths: Good and Evil. Each person has to choose which path they take. For those who choose Evil, they receive a lot of power very quickly and gain great power over their rivals, easily defeating them right away. For those who choose Good, they have to do a lot more work and a lot more training, but in the end their power is much greater than that of someone Evil.
The reason I brought that up is because it reminds me of the WRX vs. EVO thing. The EVO is very much Evil. The 4G63 makes power like you wouldn't believe, and does it for little money and little tuning. You instantly can go out and destroy people on the streets with your AWD terror. The problem is that it's a temporary power, as it all comes crashing down on you eventually. The WRX on the other hand is Good, and initially it's a much worse car that requires more tuning to get right and never seems to match the speed or handling of the EVO in any test. But if you keep at it and really put some time into the car, it will become stronger and more reliable than any EVO out there.
So there's my analogy for the day...
^^^ Well said Dan :headbang:
Ah you learn fast young padawan.
I would spend a little extra cash for a STI any day......I don't know a whole lot about DSM's, but I do know there AWD systems suck, where as Subaru mastered it years ago.
Didn't Daimler-Chrysler pull its financial backing from Mitsubishi recently ? The company may not be around much longer, which is another good reason not to get an Evo or any Mitsubishi, for that matter ...
Didn't Daimler-Chrysler pull its financial backing from Mitsubishi recently ? The company may not be around much longer, which is another good reason not to get an Evo or any Mitsubishi, for that matter ...
I do not remember if it pulled all of it, but I do recall it at least pulling some...
DC sees the Mitubihi arm as a wasted effort, considering that they have excellent german engineers to assist them with all areas of design... and believe me, they have... just look at the Crossfire, Magnum, and 300C. Total departure from 90's Dodge tyling and tuning, much more German influences. Who needs some lackluster Mitsu designers when you have that?
That's what they were most likely thinking when they yanked funds.
Yeah, Chrysler's cars have certainly took a turn for the better thanks the merger ...
I still don't like the styling of the 300C or Crossfire, although I like the Magnum ...
a few valid points:
why do you need warranty if you're modding a car?? if something breaks you just replace it with something stronger. why would you keep putting stock clutches etc in a car that you'd thrash??
when at look at all the sucess that Subaru has in australia, a lot of reliabilty issues are over-looked. for instance; they have a terrible appetite for hubs and wheel bearings, smashed gearboxs, roasted clutches, blown engine oil seals, and lets not forget Subaru not retuning the early STi's to cope with our poor fuel. many an engine died because of that!!
they're also expensive things to maintain, as they're just plain turds to work on.
other than that, they're not a bad car. in fact i have a Subaru cap on right now(no bias here!!)
but, if i had a choice, i'd take an Evo 5 RS in Scotia white with Ekei Tarmac Evo 17s.
Id get an old escort cossy! not as fast or as good at handling as either the scooby or EVO but every time one drives past I nearly crash looking at it.
That's right umai na, it's extremely common to do in boxes in WRXs even stock ones. They had probably fixed this problem a mostly by the time the car came out in the US (the bug eye version). The bug eye WRX marked a definite downturn in WRX love tho, aussies pretty much hated the styling and they were slower than the outgoing model, although i think the newest facelift looks worse.
The Escort Cosworth looks da bomb, never seen one in the flesh but all the photos (and getaway in stockholm 3) make it look like a nice little weapon.