Jan 6, 2006, 8:50 am · #1
A write up would be really helpful. I have a z31 Autopower rollcage that i\'m gonna modify and weld it in so I\'ll take a few pics also. I probably wont do it till feb but the write up would be a big help.
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Megasquirting
Jan 6, 2006, 8:44 pm · #2
Due to new regulations up here for the 06 drift season, the Toad\'s getting a spec cage installed.
I\'m having it designed by a (semi)famous (local) rally driver/rally shop owner.
I\'ll then bother Mr. Furious endlessly until we fab and install it.
I\'m trying to keep the passenger seat area intact, as well as most of the interior.
I\'ll get pics when we\'re doing it, and can add them to any thread on the subject.
I rarely have time to get online anymore (this week\'s been an exception) so it might be a while before anything makes it here.
Mar 24, 2006, 7:04 am · #3
hillkill what happened with the cage?
Mar 29, 2006, 8:34 am · #4
bump for interest
Mar 29, 2006, 10:33 am · #5
i wouldnt mind a write up either. DIY cages almost sound scary though :eek:
Mar 30, 2006, 12:20 am · #6
i wouldnt mind a write up either. DIY cages almost sound scary though :eek:
its not really do it yourself. he was suppose to have it welded together. i just want to see his set up. hillkill, will you be attending altamont this year. are you even still around?
Apr 5, 2006, 6:11 pm · #7
Well due to some problems (i.e. not bieng able to use the welder I was promised) the cage has been put on the back burner. I had all the tubing bent by chris alstons chassis works in sacramento. The main hoop is in already but a couple of parts were bent incorrectly. Then School started and I have had no time to work on her at all. But the good news is I finally saved up enough and bought my own welder. I plan on attending as many altamont events as I can once I get done with school and move back up to norcal.
Apr 5, 2006, 9:25 pm · #8
Well due to some problems (i.e. not bieng able to use the welder I was promised) the cage has been put on the back burner. I had all the tubing bent by chris alstons chassis works in sacramento. The main hoop is in already but a couple of parts were bent incorrectly. Then School started and I have had no time to work on her at all. But the good news is I finally saved up enough and bought my own welder. I plan on attending as many altamont events as I can once I get done with school and move back up to norcal.
Just a suggestion, go to shop that does this everyday. It will be well worth your time and expense. Look at other cars with cages, take pictures of what you like and don\'t like and show it to a pro. Putting a cage in CORRECTLY is a major P.I.T.A. Welding is the easy part.Take out or cover ALL your glass in the car. Slag on glass doesn\'t come off. Besides if you take out the side glass it makes it easier to access the cage installation.
If you want to get rid of weight, take off the panals to get access to the window/regulator, take it out. you\'ll see what looks like a piece of armco with a plate of steel on it, got to weigh about 15 lbs. If you have access to a plasma cutter this should be easy. If no a cut off wheel will work.Any safety offered by this will be replaced by the cage you install. If you know someone who does siding with aluminum make some door panals out of thin alumin used to wrap window trim and fascia boards.
Mar 26, 2007, 4:56 am · #9
Dunno if anyone cares, but I'm going to use this thread, over time, to detail my Megasquirt adventures in my mk1 1985 Notchback ca20e.
If you don't know what it is, it's an aftermarket fully tunable (and inexpensive) fuel and ignition controller. You can read up on it here: http://www.megasquirt.info/
I'm going to run megasquirt'n'spark on the megasquirt 1 v3.0 pcb, so I can control spark.
I bought my megasquirt hardware at: http://www.diyautotune.com
Hardware mods:
wiring harness plugs removed from spare ca20e ecu.
ka24e throttle body (on its way from ebay)
Spare ca20e distributor with rpm & throttle advance disabled (on its way, bought from COandCA)
Cold air intake build out of intercooler piping with vacuum lines added. Throttle body outside diameter is 2.5", all my intake pipe is 2.5", and the pipe will end in a k&n universal filter (RC-9420).
Electric fan out of a civic.
25W 5 Ohm dropping resistors 825F5R0 — OHMITE — Wirewound Resistor
ACDELCO 15292 Accessory Drive Belt 88934275 (to remove fan pulley, unconfirmed fit) (Is the fan pulley connected to the water pump? I never did this one)
I spent the weekend reviewing the megasquirt manuals, and FSM. I have most of the wiring down (subject to experimentation/verification, don't blame me if you blow up your car, the ones marked with ? I am not completely sure of):
Stock CA20e pinout:
Looking at the back of the ECU where the harness plugs in, there are two plugs:
Left Plug:
115 114 ---- 113 112
111 X X 108 107
106 X X 103 102 101
Right Plug:
10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11
Pin, Color, Description
1) (P) ??? Check Engine Light (Couldn't determine exactly what this is for)
2) (W) Intake Air Temp
3) (Y/G) Coolant Temp
4) (B) O2 Sensor +
5) (B) O2 Sensor GND
6) (Y/L) ? Common wire for Intake Air Temp and MAF sensor (assumed to be +5V or +12V)
7) (LG/B) ? Provides signal/power to: Power Steering Oil Pressure Switch, Heater Fan, "Lightning Switch". I am not sure if this needs to be connected or not.
8) (G/Y) Throttle Position Sensor switch: idle
9) (B/Y) Start signal in to ECU (+12V when START in ignition switch)
10) (L/W) Throttle Position Sensor swtich: full throttle
11) (G) MAF #1
12) (G/R) Throttle Position Sensor switch: Ecu output (assumed to be +5V or +12V)
13) (Y/R) A/T Unit (I assume this means Automatic Transmission)
14) (G/OR) Transmission Neutral Switch (GND when switch is on)
15) (L/Y) MAF #2
16) (Y/R) MAF #3
17) (G/R) Distributor output signal (controls the twin/single spark system, and also modifies timing in the Auto Trans model)
18) (BR) Check Connector (Not used)
19) (LG) Check Connector (Not used)
20) (L) Tachometer signal
101) (W/L) Injector #4 GND/Signal
102) (B) Ground
103) (B) Ground
106) (B) Fuel Pump GND/Signal (Should be connected to a relay! Megasquirt can't deal with the current on this wire)
107) (W/R) Injector #1 GND/Signal
108) (B/W) Injectors +
111) (Y/W) Idle Up (turns on under high electrical load to stabilize idle)
112) (W) Injector #2 GND/Signal
113) (Y) Injector #3 GND/Signal
114) (L/R) Air Regulator (Should be on when fuel pump is on, according to FSM)
115) (LG/B) EFI Relay switch signal
Megasquirt wiring:
Megasquirt is wired using a DB37 cable (a serial cable using up to 37 wires).
See here for reference: http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/V3assemble.htm
Here is how I plan to wire, notation is Megasquirt Pin -> ca20e wire harness pin:
MS ca20e
7, 8, 9, 17, 18, 19 -> Engine Block Ground
20 -> GM Air Temp Sensor in custom cold air intake
21 -> 3
22 -> ka24e TPS pigtail (variable resistor)
23 -> 4
24 -> 20
26 -> ka24e TPS pigtail (variable resistor)
28 -> 115 (main relay power)
30 -> 111
31 -> Coil #2 Negative Terminal (instead of distributor)
32 -> 101
33 -> 107
34 -> 112
35 -> 113
36 -> Coil #1 Negative Terminal (instead of distributor)
37 -> fuel pump relay: 114 (air regulator) + 106 (fuel pump) (I am going to wire in a relay in to the wiring harness to deal with these, since the OEM Ecu can handle more current from 114 and 106 than the megasquirt can for these pins... there is no fuel pump relay in the car, essentially, and megasquirt requires one).
Fuel Pump Relay:
One each of the switching wires connected to: (ca 115) Positive and (ms 37) Gnd/Neg
The 'Switched On' wire connected to: (ca 114 & ca 106) Positive
The 'Common Switched' wire connected to: (ca 102) Gnd/Neg
MegaSquirt assembly notes
Megasquirt 1 CPU on v3 pcb:
http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/V3assemble.htm
22) I did not install the IAC stepper control, since we have on/off idle air equipment on the ca20e.
50) It says you must choose between
1) Hall/Optical/etc. or
2) VR (Variable Reluctor)
We have a distributor/points system, so you should do 50a or 50b. 51 is optional in the case of ca20e (and won't be of any benefit unless you swap to a different engine with VR)
You must then choose one of:
a) Hall/optical or points without a coil connection (ie.: Megasquirt drives the coil) or
b) coil negative terminal/points trigger
I chose (a) because I plan on using Megasquirt to trigger the coil, not the distributor. I am not completely sure on this, but because the mk1 distributor runs an IC to trigger the coils anyways, then you may be able to always just choose (a) even if you are not triggering the coils with Megasquirt.
50a) It says that most people don't need D2, but it should be jumpered. I installed it, on accident. I will remove and jumper this location if there is a problem.
51) Did not install the Variable Reluctor circuit (even though it was recommended, it is optional if triggering off of distributor points)
52) Install the jumpers "For the Hall sensor, optical sensor, coil negative terminal or points"
54) This is needlessly confusing, just install the two resistors and go to the next step.
Use megatherm to program the air and coolant temperature sensors if you're using the stock ones. From the 1985 FSM:
Air temp sensor resistance (kOhm) (ca20e only):
-10C -> 8.0-10.0
20C -> 2.3-2.7
50C -> 0.7-0.9
Coolant temp sensor (kOhm):
-10C -> 8.5-9.5
20C -> 2.3-2.7
50C -> 0.77-0.87
80C -> 0.30-0.33
65) Did not complete yet, but here is how I will do it:
Since the ca20e has two coils, we need to install a second coil driver. See: "Two Coils Direct Drive Output for a V3.0 PCB" on the Megasquirt 'n' Spark Extra Manual. The only difference is that I wired the coil output to pin 31 (instead of pin 6 as in the manual) because my wiring harness already had an unused wire on pin 31 that I could use.
Reference notes:
Megasquirt Manual v3.0 pcb
Megasquirt 'n' Spark Extra Manual
240sx Distributor Wiring
69) I screwed this part up a little... the mica insulators are in a bag with a screw, lock washer and plastic washer. The mica insulator are clear rectangles with a hole cut in them.
69,70) Install both (in case of injector upgrades later, and I don't know if we have low or high impedance injectors anyways)
71) Do not install these. Even though it'd be nice to have the current protection, we need the heat sink space for a second coil driver.
Useful Specifications
Fuel Pressure Regulator: 30 psi at idle, 37 psi at full throttle
Fuel Pump: 43-64 psi, 95 liters/hour or 25.125 gallon/hour (good to at least 150hp or so)
Fuel injector impudence: 2-3 Ohm (low impedance)
Updates
May 24, 2007
I got the parts for the cold air intake (universal intercooler piping kit for my eventual ca18det). I ripped out the maf, the stock intake pipes, the stock fan and fan clutch.
I mocked up the cold air piping and marked where to attach vacuum lines.
I got this rad set of vacuum line taps: "Spectre 8711 Optional Air Intake Installation Hardware Kit" off of (Amazon).
It's a set of grommets and vacuum fittings to connect vacuum lines to intake pipes, you just drill a hole and pop a grommet in.
Oct 25, 2007
Here's a link to a baseline tune that should get the car started. It's tuned for 12.5:1 AFR at 3000 rpms, and 12.0:1 above that.
http://www.indolence.net/s12/resources/meg..._2007_07_14.msq
I've decided to take it to the next step and drop a t2 turbo on this bad boy, I'll make a writeup in another thread.
Mar 29, 2007, 4:47 am · #10
Got the kit today... damn there are a lot of components to solder! I sort of wish I bought one pre-assembled, I realize now that it may have been worth the extra $100 or so for a pre-assembled kit.
I think one more evening and it'll all be put together. I soldered together the MegaStim and the power & serial communications circuits on the main board today.
Also while I was at the auto parts store, I saw a universal cold air intake made by APC. It looks like I could get it to work with Megasquirt so long as the pipe isn't ridiculously big. It had pre-welded vacuum fittings, and maybe a bung, I can't tell... but all I need is one or two vacuum fittings and a place to drop my temperature sensor.
Mar 29, 2007, 5:18 am · #11
Is assembling the megasquirt very hard? I can't say I'm amazing at soldering or anything, but I have modded my share of video game systems.
Mar 29, 2007, 9:29 am · #12
i dont think id have the patience for that very intresting though and provides the driver almost complete control over his/her engine and thats cool
Mar 29, 2007, 12:02 pm · #13
Smalltar_The_ImpalerIs assembling the megasquirt very hard? I can't say I'm amazing at soldering or anything, but I have modded my share of video game systems.
I don't really have much experience with soldering at all, it's relatively easy, but I'm sure I'm not making the best solder joints.
I assembled the MegaStim first (since it's only used to test and power up the MegaSquirt, and hence less crucial), and basically learned to solder on that thing.
There are lots of good soldering/assembly tips on their forums, http://www.msefi.com
The difficult part is the patience. The kit is very well organized and laid out. It's basically like an electronics version of color by numbers. Each component comes in its own baggie with a label that matches a label printed on the PCB. And there are a lot of components, check this out:
Most of the components have 2 or 3 leads to solder. The DB9 connector has 9, the DB37 connector has 37, the U1 socket has 40, and the U6 has I think 10. It's a lot of pins!
Mar 29, 2007, 12:25 pm · #14
Have fun, man. I might pick one of those up, even just to assemble. I've been soldering for a few years now, I've always worked on electric guitars and amplifiers.
Mar 29, 2007, 5:21 pm · #15
Holy crap... that's a lot of solder points, but I guess if you have the extra time and soldering equipment, nothing beats the smell of the 100 bucks saved.
Mar 29, 2007, 5:23 pm · #16
Smalltar_The_ImpalerHoly crap... that's a lot of solder points, but I guess if you have the extra time and soldering equipment, nothing beats the smell of the 100 bucks saved.I love the smell of molten tin, anyways.
Mar 30, 2007, 8:40 pm · #17
Yeah... so, I am rethinking soldering my own. I'm 3/4 through, and all the tests have passed so far, but it is far more time consuming than I had anticipated... I think I've spent 8 hours on it already.
The kit is simple, but I still made some mistakes in assembly that I had to fix.
Do yourself a favor and buy a pre-assembled kit if you get this thing!
Apr 3, 2007, 3:25 am · #18
I'll take your word for it and spend the extra hundred bucks when it's swappage time. As much as I love wasting time soldering, that's time that can be spent wiring.
Apr 3, 2007, 3:55 am · #19
Update:
I have the computer assembled for fuel-only right now, it bench tests with MegaTune and works with the Stimulator.
Because our cars have two sparks per cylinder, it'll be tricky getting the hardware to support the two coil outputs needed. I'm researching how to set the board up for that nonsense. I might have to get an MSD and just run one signal to that and have the MSD power the two coils, or figure out how to cram another coil transistor on to the board... (I don't think there's room for that)
Next step is to build the wiring harness and decide whether to use Megasquirt for ignition timing control.
I am waiting on a stupid clutch to come in the mail before I can even think of installing this stuff
Apr 6, 2007, 7:32 pm · #20
Update:
I think I have all the wiring figured out. I labeled all my wires and am going to make a harness this weekend.
I'll post up a wiring diagram once I'm done (subject to modifications, as I haven't tried to start the car with it yet...)
Apr 7, 2007, 6:50 pm · #21
Empedocles99Update:
I think I have all the wiring figured out. I labeled all my wires and am going to make a harness this weekend.
I'll post up a wiring diagram once I'm done (subject to modifications, as I haven't tried to start the car with it yet...)
Posted wiring diagram.
Apr 7, 2007, 9:06 pm · #22
jesus, thats alot of shit to solder...for that many point, id recommend going adn spending a bill on a weller.
Apr 7, 2007, 9:47 pm · #23
Premojesus, thats alot of shit to solder...for that many point, id recommend going adn spending a bill on a weller.
Dude, it is already done... hopefully the next fool will take my advice and buy one already assembled, heh.
Apr 10, 2007, 1:25 am · #24
Empedocles99Update: Fuel injection harness wired... megasquirt turns the fuel pump on, yay.
Apr 11, 2007, 3:46 am · #25
awesomeness. i think I might just order me a MSnS to assemble, because i have a whole lot of spare time, and spare time filled with smoke, molten tin, and electrical stuff is time well spent. then, one day, i'll try running it on Corsa or some piece like that.
Apr 11, 2007, 3:59 am · #26
Seraph1mawesomeness. i think I might just order me a MSnS to assemble, because i have a whole lot of spare time, and spare time filled with smoke, molten tin, and electrical stuff is time well spent. then, one day, i'll try running it on Corsa or some piece like that.
Hmm, I can't say that I enjoyed the soldering. Way too much work. Hopefully the end result will be worth it though (I only want 15 hp out of this project, is that too much to ask?)
Apr 11, 2007, 11:57 am · #27
How much have u spent so far on the kit and components. And would u recommend get for someone doing a swap without a harness?
Apr 11, 2007, 12:35 pm · #28
PowEr_oVeRHow much have u spent so far on the kit and components. And would u recommend get for someone doing a swap without a harness?
I think about $375 total so far.
I still need to drop about $75 in parts to make a real cold air intake (includes k&n cone filter) that bypasses the MAF.
You can do it without a nissan engine harness, but you'll have to do maybe 15 wires in to the engine bay.
Apr 11, 2007, 12:52 pm · #29
That isn't bad at all, I have another question though. The kit comes with a GM sensor for the air flow. Is that being used to replace the heavy MFS in the ca20?
Apr 11, 2007, 1:49 pm · #30
PowEr_oVeRThat isn't bad at all, I have another question though. The kit comes with a GM sensor for the air flow. Is that being used to replace the heavy MFS in the ca20?
Yes, getting rid of the flapper maf will gain us some power
Megasquirt uses air temp + MAP (vacuum line from the manifold to the ecu) to measure the air. So you kind of have to get rid of the MAF (unless you're really good at electronics).
In the end, my intake will just be a cone filter, some exhaust tubing with some fittings (vacuum/air lines + air temp sensor), connected to the throttle body. Simple.
Apr 12, 2007, 2:43 am · #31
chris mate, you need to roll that beast on over sometime..i havent seen it in ages
Apr 12, 2007, 10:00 am · #32
Premochris mate, you need to roll that beast on over sometime..i havent seen it in ages
Well... hopefully the clutch is getting fixed today, finally! If all goes well, I can do it soon The lesson is that sport compact only takes forever to ship things.
Apr 12, 2007, 8:54 pm · #33
Empedocles99Well... hopefully the clutch is getting fixed today, finally! If all goes well, I can do it soon The lesson is that sport compact only takes forever to ship things.
did you get the distrib? hey where did you get the ecu pinout for the mk1?? im doing a ka24de swap and i have been dead in the water without that pinout.
Apr 12, 2007, 9:09 pm · #34
COandCAdid you get the distrib? hey where did you get the ecu pinout for the mk1?? im doing a ka24de swap and i have been dead in the water without that pinout.
I got the distributor, I should have let you know. I JB Welded the weights so it won't advance now, yay.
I used the two wiring diagrams in the factory service manual, the one in the ECS area and the wiring diagram in the back of the book.
As long as people don't abuse the downloads, I've got some s12 and s13 manuals on my website (see my sig)
Apr 12, 2007, 10:30 pm · #35
Empedocles99I got the distributor, I should have let you know. I JB Welded the weights so it won't advance now, yay.sweet dude. any chance you could put up a pic of the pinout? you can do it in my "it has begun" thread in tha ka24de section so i can stop hijacking your thread.
I used the two wiring diagrams in the factory service manual, the one in the ECS area and the wiring diagram in the back of the book.
As long as people don't abuse the downloads, I've got some s12 and s13 manuals on my website (see my sig)
thanks
May 25, 2007, 5:06 am · #36
This project is not dead... yet
May 30, 2007, 11:01 am · #37
Computer is wired.
Custom cold air intake made with all the vacuum lines installed.
All the sensors seem to be working, using the GM air intake temp sensor, and the stock nissan coolant temp sensor. MAP seems to respond when the engine is cranking, and the ka24e TPS works brilliantly, a direct fit.
Car cranks and starts, but dies right away. Need to figure out how to get it to idle now... I have to play with the 'after start' enrichment, and the fuel table.
I'll probably post pictures of the whole setup in a couple of days when I have some time.
This is exciting
May 30, 2007, 12:04 pm · #38
Why have you spent $5000 and still have a CA20e? I would've swapped to a RB20DET or a CA18DET
May 30, 2007, 12:25 pm · #39
eminem_rh25Why have you spent $5000 and still have a CA20e? I would've swapped to a RB20DET or a CA18DET
$5000? Hardly. Maybe $500 and some time. Oh, maybe you mean on the whole car?
With the suspension setup and weight reduction, the car is actually pretty quick around the track as is, so I'm actually somewhat pleased with its performance already.
An engine swap requires skills and tools that I do not have.
Besides, I'd rather practice this kind of stuff on an engine that I don't care so much about. Blowing up a ca20e will not leave me in tears. I'm going to swap to an 18det when the time is right.. and when that time comes this car will crush some much more expensive machinery.
Jun 1, 2007, 12:46 am · #40
you will have no problem megasquirting a 18det after this man.
Jun 1, 2007, 12:47 am · #41
sam31183you will have no problem megasquirting a 18det after this man.
Now someone gets the bigger picture
Jun 15, 2007, 12:44 am · #42
Got it to idle on the MS tonight, yay. It's tricky figuring out the initial settings, and trying to understand why the stupid thing refuses to idle, but I finally got it.
I'll post my tuned maps once I'm done
Jun 15, 2007, 7:05 am · #43
I would be keen to do this when your finished and have documented it. I have a mate running a MegaSquirt on his turbo'd 525i BMW and that makes over 200rwkw with just his 'laptop while driving' tune, and the motor hasnt even been opened yet.
How did you solve the twinspark problem?
Jun 15, 2007, 11:15 am · #44
Dave.I would be keen to do this when your finished and have documented it. I have a mate running a MegaSquirt on his turbo'd 525i BMW and that makes over 200rwkw with just his 'laptop while driving' tune, and the motor hasnt even been opened yet.
How did you solve the twinspark problem?
I am running fuel only right now.
The twinspark problem is solved by having two ignition drivers on the megasquirt board, or by using an MSD, or a V8 coil driver.
The next steps for me are:
Tune
Ignition
Turbo
At any/some point this whole setup might be replaced by a ca18det though
Jun 18, 2007, 4:32 am · #45
ca18det is my plan also, in about a years time. What controls the ignition atm?
Good luck with the rest of the project.
Jun 19, 2007, 1:07 pm · #46
Empedocles99
I am running fuel only right now.
The twinspark problem is solved by having two ignition drivers on the megasquirt board, or by using an MSD, or a V8 coil driver.
The next steps for me are:
Tune
Ignition
Turbo
At any/some point this whole setup might be replaced by a ca18det though
I would have to say that the 18det will be on its way some time after you turbo the 20e....
Jun 20, 2007, 10:31 am · #47
sam31183I would have to say that the 18det will be on its way some time after you turbo the 20e....
Yeah, that's what I expect too... but I won't be sad if it actually works due to proper tuning
Dave.ca18det is my plan also, in about a years time. What controls the ignition atm?
Good luck with the rest of the project.
Ignition is controlled by the distributor as with stock. I have an MK1 that doesn't have any transistors, or computer controlled ignition timing.
There might be a trick to triggering the dual-spark circuitry, but it would probably just be setting one of the distributor ic wires to 0V, +5V or +12V.
Once I have it tuned enough (and I have enough time) to rev past 3500rpms, I'll know if the dual spark is working
Shouldn't be to hard. All in good time.
Jun 29, 2007, 5:13 am · #48
Lots of work, finally got it running decently with the wideband
Drove it around town, it's pretty rich, have to tune and solve a bug here and there, but even un-tuned it is noticeably quicker and the rpms climb more smoothly.
I'm going to take it to the 1/8 mile drag strip tonight, might be able to tune a little after work, on the way to the track, we'll see what happens.
A more thorough writeup will be coming after I fix the bugs and get it tuned right.
Jun 29, 2007, 12:22 pm · #49
Ohh hells yes, I ran the auto tuning software in MegaLogViewer on the data I collected yesterday. The car is noticeably faster now, especially between 5000->6500 rpms, it used to be pretty weak there, now it is much less weak.
Oct 26, 2007, 2:55 am · #50
Car's been running strong since. Still haven't bothered to tune the start up enrichments (it starts poorly when it's cold out). Many miles and probably 4 track sessions, no problems at all, it's dope.
Next is ca20et