Feb 19, 2010, 4:03 pm · #551
Seriously!
Seriously!
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Matt's S12
Seriously!
Feb 20, 2010, 7:56 pm · #552
Did a little work on the manifold today.
(https://i.imgur.com/L6dbAqg.jpg)
I think I know how I want to route the runners, but I have to get some straight piping though and make a collector.
And Sterling just dropped this off:
(https://i.imgur.com/B3cWda7.jpg)
The Original BartCo strut brace, the one off Sterling's blue notch.
(https://i.imgur.com/lZmD2JA.jpg)
Plenty of clearance on the SR!
Feb 21, 2010, 5:52 pm · #553
damn dude, i thought you knew this, but the exhaust isnt supposed to feed into itself.
LOL
lookin good man!
Feb 23, 2010, 8:57 am · #554
seishukuI'm still thinking of using QA1 coilovers, that way I don't have to build a strut tower. Should make things a little easier.
Did you modify the subframe or the chassis? I think I will just change the mount points on the subframe, that way if I ever use it for racing that has a rule on chassis changes, it'll help stay clear of that. Hopefully.
i modified both the subframe and the chassis... that chassis beam in the back that the rear mounts line up on..i removed it and welded in some square tubing to get a nice flat surface to work with and then i went to the subframe and modified the front mounts....extended them to the oem mounting point. the outer beams need to be massaged a little to clear the camber rod mount.. and i think the traction rod as well
Feb 28, 2010, 10:30 pm · #555
Good to know. I wonder if the rear section between a MK1 and MK2 changed any, maybe more room on a MK2 for the links? I donno.
I think I figured out how I want to do the manifold:
(https://i.imgur.com/3znnSI1.jpg)
Mar 1, 2010, 12:06 am · #556
Wait. Sterling was in our neck of the woods?
Damnit!
Mar 1, 2010, 3:15 am · #557
JayWait. Sterling was in our neck of the woods?rofl he stopped by to see me on his way in around 4 or 5 am
Damnit!
Mar 11, 2010, 7:09 pm · #558
Dammit Matt, are you still welding with fux core? The bottle this stuff, it's called ARGON, get some and use it!
Mar 11, 2010, 8:41 pm · #559
It's just for quick fitment, I'm gonna TIG it at work when I get it the way I want.
Mar 15, 2010, 7:36 pm · #560
FUCK FUCK FUCK
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/seishuku/Fck.jpg (missing image)
Lost #1 plug ground strap, and I think it cracked my piston crown/ringland.
Or it's developed rod knock, either way... FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU...
Mar 15, 2010, 9:02 pm · #561
NNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOO
*HUFF*OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mar 15, 2010, 9:05 pm · #562
damn dude. looks like detonation?
Mar 15, 2010, 9:06 pm · #563
WOW MAN, not fucking good!, get her looked into fast!
You still got a spare motor dont you? get her thrown in so you can open up the SR and get some pictures to be sure of whats happened.
Mar 15, 2010, 9:25 pm · #564
Nah, the KA was in pieces and went to Jay.
It might have been knocking, but it's hard to say. The plug is fairly clean, the damage looks like it was beat up from the ground strap bouncing around.
Timing was clean and stable at a low value (lowered in-boost timing a few days ago) and AFRs were good too.
I think the strap did the damage, just broke off from fatigue. I don't know.
Sad to say, but I may end up having to part out the '12... We just can't afford to fix it.
I guess it depends on what broke.
Mar 15, 2010, 9:27 pm · #565
Matt, dont part it out, I'd rather drag it off your property by a cheap rope all the way back here with my S12 if i had to.
You got my number if you wanna discuss that at all if thats the way you lean towards.
Or get on AIM or somethin, i dunno.
Mar 15, 2010, 9:47 pm · #566
Might come down to it... I have to talk it over with the wife. Either way we have to get another car for me, which actually might not be too bad, but it's another bill.
Mar 15, 2010, 11:08 pm · #567
seishukuMight come down to it... I have to talk it over with the wife. Either way we have to get another car for me, which actually might not be too bad, but it's another bill.
Uggg. The SR syndrome shows it's face.
I'll gladly take the car off your hands. Or we could figure something out. I have a couple KA's laying around yet. Could get ya up and running over a weekend
Mar 16, 2010, 4:59 pm · #568
seishukuSR syndrome is #3, not #1
I donno if I want to put you through the trouble of bringing a whole engine set Jay, I don't have anything I can give you in return, money or otherwise.
I got a pretty good idea what happened, pretty sure it's a cracked ringland as I'm getting oil up on the piston.
A leak down test will confirm it though.
I'm debating on trading ya the SR setup for a fresh rebuilt KA setup (All I'd need to pick up is some rings, a MAF, and an ignition coil for an entire running swap, I have EVERYTHING else). if that was something you'd be interested in. Could literally get you up and running in less than 24 hours on some weekend...
An SR would look mighty pretty in my Midgets engine bay
Mar 16, 2010, 9:43 pm · #569
Let me think about it, I'm gonna see what the damage is and go from there.
Mar 16, 2010, 10:18 pm · #570
take the plug out and run it. then pour jb weld on the piston from up there. lol
Mar 18, 2010, 7:08 pm · #571
any word on this yet matt? did you get a chance to open up the engine?
Mar 18, 2010, 10:08 pm · #572
Not yet, I will be tomorrow though.
I just got it in the garage today, as we've been spring cleaning and everything was a mess.
Items on my buy list are as follows:
Head gasket
Piston
Rings
4 60CC/min spray nozzles (going direct port on the water injection)
IF things are the way I think at least.
I am thinking of going with some CP or Mahle 9:1 forged slugs though, new rings and bearings.
It depends on how fast I need to get things done, otherwise I'm gonna take my time and build it up.
I am going to take advantage of the situation though, and get some work done that I can't do while having to DD the car.
Mar 18, 2010, 10:23 pm · #573
seishukuI am thinking of going with some CP or Mahle 9:1 forged slugs though, new rings and bearings.
I wouldn't bother doing anything otherwise. It's already open and apart, That should be a minimum to do with it.
No broken land in the future that way
Mar 18, 2010, 10:33 pm · #574
Gotta say, im glad you are fixing it. We'd have nowhere to hang out for our meets if you left us
Mar 18, 2010, 10:54 pm · #575
It would take a lot more than that to make me leave!
I'll always be here for meets/hang out.
Mar 20, 2010, 3:11 pm · #576
Bummer!!!!
Told you I heard something funky last time I was up there...
It doesn't look like detonation to me, there's no evidence of melted metal or metal transfer. If you had detonation there would be flecks of aluminum on the plug from the piston melting, or globules of what was left of the plug. It looks to me like the ground strap broke off, but now you're left with a 'chicken vs egg' situation: Did the ground strap get hit with a chunk of piston, or did it break off of it's own accord and do further damage? One thing's for certain: You'll need parts.
Mar 20, 2010, 3:56 pm · #577
Pic/Video dump
https://youtu.be/yT_qGkGoUDU
(https://i.imgur.com/ZlIQYbS.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/m3voe4r.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/B1YCkjC.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QOtcbuW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/POAJhSq.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sZJyaaE.jpg)
Still gotta pull the piston, gonna do that tonight or tomorrow.
Mar 20, 2010, 4:00 pm · #578
I cringed when I say those photos.
Mar 20, 2010, 4:06 pm · #579
That really looks bad. So a cracked ring did that? Does it require you to bore it out?
Mar 20, 2010, 4:10 pm · #580
Seems that way, I think the cylinder wall will hone out though.
Mar 20, 2010, 6:10 pm · #581
So, im still kinda a newb on stuff like this, what would cause something like that to happen normally? Besides the spark plug ground strap falling into the cylinder of course.
Mar 20, 2010, 8:43 pm · #582
Wow that really sucks. Hopefully it will hone out.
Mar 21, 2010, 12:40 am · #583
XanoSo, im still kinda a newb on stuff like this, what would cause something like that to happen normally? Besides the spark plug ground strap falling into the cylinder of course.Well from what I can gather, it may have been a chain of events. I think the water injection might have failed to get enough spray to #1 (the reason I want to do direct port injection), which might have caused minor detonation (non-audible) which then might have caused plug failure and upset the combustion enough to detonate harder and crack the upper land.
But I have a hard time believing that it was knocking at all, like my brother said, there's no aluminum transfer on the plug, no pitting on the piston, no pitting of the upper cylinder. Now, I haven't looked at the head yet (I didn't want to pull the rockers and shims right now), but I'm willing to bet that it looks just like the piston crown, nice and clean.
Which brings me to this:
Less water injection flow to #1, meaning faster burning flame front (harder combustion).
+4 years running.
+10:1 compression N/A cast pistons.
= Cracked ring-land due to mechanical stress.
The real shame is that this happened before I could get it on a dyno and see what kind of power I was producing.
I'm about 99% sure that will hone out though, it's pretty minor, just rubbing damage. It didn't score the walls at all.
Mar 21, 2010, 2:10 am · #584
ClownyI cringed when I saw those photos.+1
But take comfort that now you can rebuild it. Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger
u should keep the high compression. u alreayd have a lot of experience with high comp turbo and ur already setup for it. Greater thermal efficiency
Mar 21, 2010, 2:23 am · #585
I'll probably end up with 9:1 (easier to find too), I don't think I'll do 10:1 again. I guess it depends on what I can find, and for how much.
Mar 21, 2010, 2:32 am · #586
i kinda knew this would happen in time, but still sucks tho...
a cheap daily could probably be had for a couple hundred, and would be good backup so you can get down and dirty with this thing!
lmk if you need a cheap car, I can network with people out there and probably locate one soon...
or
i think Jay has like 10 cars? lol
Mar 21, 2010, 2:52 am · #587
if you give up, gimme that intake manifold!
Mar 21, 2010, 12:26 pm · #588
200sxkitcari think Jay has like 10 cars? lol
13
Mar 21, 2010, 1:14 pm · #589
jay could hook you up with a probe! Oh...wait...you need a car...jk jk jk!!!!
Mar 21, 2010, 1:20 pm · #590
sam31183jay could hook you up with a probe! Oh...wait...you need a car...jk jk jk!!!!
Oh a probe is a car.
What he needs is a car that won't blow a tranny or turbo driving it back
Mar 21, 2010, 1:56 pm · #591
you got a line on any 626s or mx6s? NA of course...
Mar 21, 2010, 1:58 pm · #592
sam31183you got a line on any 626s or mx6s? NA of course...
I haven't looked for a long long time. but I could.
If matt want's a a geo metro. I know of one for 200 drive it home.
Mar 21, 2010, 4:31 pm · #593
Doesn't really matter, as long as it drives and won't break down.
We don't have 200 cash right now though, still trying to figure out exactly what we're gonna do.
I got the piston out:
(https://i.imgur.com/rPUN1P7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Z6g12HP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NB8sEzi.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/rPEBG2m.jpg)
Top ring was stuck, either welded in or just the aluminum getting rolled over from the side damage.
There is very little pitting at the upper ring gap (where it was stuck), but I still don't think it was detonation.
It's not cracked anywhere though, if it weren't for the skirt damage, I'd reuse it!
Mar 21, 2010, 8:16 pm · #594
Why is it that the cheapest forged pistons that I can find are all 86.5MM?
DOES NO ONE MAKE STANDARD BORE FORGED PISTONS?! Ugh.
/rant
That being said, I might just get 8.5:1 OEM cast pistons.
Mar 21, 2010, 11:56 pm · #595
seishukuThat being said, I might just get 8.5:1 OEM cast pistons.noooooooooo!
Mar 22, 2010, 3:48 pm · #596
With the 8.5:1 CR pistons, I can use a 1.1MM head gasket and still hold at least 9:1. Not a total loss, though it would be awesome to have 9.5:1 forged slugs, but I don't want to bore .020 over and cost and arm and a leg.
Mar 22, 2010, 11:32 pm · #597
have the block hot tanked and bored and honed and itll bee the best option and cost around 300 bux
Mar 23, 2010, 3:43 pm · #598
I'm going to hone it myself, if the wear marks don't come out, then I'll send it out.
The goal is to keep cost down, and I don't plan on replacing any bearings (since they're basically brand new looking), otherwise I would strip the block down too.
Mar 24, 2010, 2:02 am · #599
damn bro that sux hope everything works out and you can get her back on the road....
Mar 26, 2010, 12:20 am · #600
seishukuTop ring was stuck, either welded in or just the aluminum getting rolled over from the side damage.
There is very little pitting at the upper ring gap (where it was stuck), but I still don't think it was detonation.
I don't think it was detonation either, but just because you don't see the typical tell-tale signs does not mean it was not occurring...
This is all per my experience, yours may differ.
There are a few different failure modes detonation can manifest itself in, the most common one I'm sure you're all very familiar with already: rattle can noise under heavy load, melting aluminum, wasted plug electrodes, holed pistons, ect. That type of damage is caused by heavy detonation, which occurs over a long period of time at heavy load. By long period I mean going up a long hill at full throttle, not an actual time period like a month or something. The engine is under heavy load, at less than ideal conditions. The condition may be less than required fuel octane, overadvanced spark timing, overly lean fueling conditions, or even an overheating cylinder head that goes unnoticed (trust me it happens, and a head that would have been reuseable gets destroyed by detonation instead of just being warped). Detonation consistantly occurs, temps in the combustion chamber hit Chernobyl-like levels, and next thing you know your pistons have skylights. I've even seen it so bad that the pistons actually survived, yet the head melted down so bad the seats fell right out of the casting. That was a Cosworth YB engine, back when I lived in Sicily.
It's the other modes of failure people seldom identify, because they are so easy to mistake as another issue. Things like wiped out rod bearings (usually only the upper shell) for no apparent reason which get written off as a bad oil pump or oil starvation, sunken valve seats/melted valves, or in this case you might suspect detonation because of the locked rings (though I doubt that's the case here). This mode is consistant with detonation that is still quite intense, though it happens more or less 'infrequently'. In other words it doesn't happen enough to melt anything, yet it's still there giving your bearings and piston crowns a literal hammering. The force of the colliding waves of pressure inside the combustion chamber can be so great that the piston crown actually droops down over time, causing the rings to become frozen in their respective lands. I saw this exact thing happen to an N/A VW engine, which had an intake leak that caused one cylinder to run lean.
If one single detonation event is extreme enough, it can cause enough pressure to pop the head gasket in one fell swoop, but the gasket itself is not at fault- it's the head studs allowing the head to lift off the block. Surely this one is rare, though it does happen, usually in high-HP race engines or cases where the studs were inferior.
I don't think anything really went wrong here. I think it's a simple case of material fatigue caused by parts that weren't necessarily inferior, just not up to the task of running in a high CR boosted engine. Forged slugs would not have failed in this manner, so I highly suggest you seek out a set even if you have to put off building the engine for longer than you'd like. I already made my donation to your effort, so unless you can use VW pistons...