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Matt's S12

Started by seishuku · Aug 3, 2007 · 1232postsInvision 2005–09SMF 2010–26

seishukuMar 26, 2010, 4:09 pm · #601

Yeah, it's looking more and more like just material failure.

I got a bookmark for some Wiseco 8.5:1 forged slugs, set of 4 with rings for $450. Going with that is a Cosworth 1.1MM head gasket.
I'm debating whether or not to get head studs or not, head lifting isn't a real common problem with SRs, but I will be replacing rod bolts... Those have been known to fail when reused.
We'll see I guess.

In the mean time, I've been cleaning up stuff that I've been wanting to do for years.
Resurfaced the flywheel at work, since I have a spare clutch disc that will be going in when it all gets reassembled.
(https://i.imgur.com/1VRnHvD.jpg)

Blasted and painted the NASTY/DIRTY/RUSTY front cross member.
(https://i.imgur.com/wJ2Obfc.jpg)

Bad pic, but my engine bay will be getting scrubbed and painted, it's in pretty sad shape right now.
(https://i.imgur.com/npQ6DUi.jpg)

seishukuMar 26, 2010, 8:41 pm · #602

And actually, now that I think about it... This is the very reason that the OEM turbo SR has piston oil jets, they keep the cast piston cool and the rings from seizing.

Yeah, forged is the way to go when running with out oil jets.

200sxkitcarMar 27, 2010, 12:58 am · #603

could you add the jets as well?

seishukuMar 27, 2010, 10:46 am · #604

Yeah, I could, but if I'm going with forged pistons I wouldn't need them.

200sxkitcarMar 28, 2010, 12:49 am · #605

it wouldn't be an extra level of security in an insecure world? lol

seishukuMar 28, 2010, 9:25 am · #606

Well the forged alloy doesn't shrink and expand or sag like the plain cast material, so theoretically it shouldn't ever happen.
I mean anything is possible and it wouldn't be a bad idea, but it does mean I have to completely strip down the block, drill and tap the bosses, source the jets... And I'd have to make sure I got every last little bit of aluminum out of the oil channels too.

I was hoping to just hone the short block and slap in the new forged slugs, and reassemble. Keeping it simple.
If I have to send it out and have it bored, then I probably will.

But like I said, the only reason Nissan put those jets there are because of the cast pistons. The NA motor doesn't have them, because let's face it, it just doesn't put down that much power.
Even though the KA has them, but partly due to US emissions, they burn rather hot and I guess they felt that the KA needed them.

seishukuMar 30, 2010, 10:33 pm · #607

(http://hhttps://i.imgur.com/PBmlsXH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kcc1ABJ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YOvz59C.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ePhZAcP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KdCqU8F.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4IkfhFP.jpg)

Got the front end almost completely blown apart, I still need to take apart the passenger side, then mask off and paint.

I'm also converting the steering rack to full manual, I'm just sick of trying to keep the damn lines from leaking.

JayMar 30, 2010, 10:47 pm · #608
seishukuI'm also converting the steering rack to full manual, I'm just sick of trying to keep the damn lines from leaking.

Replace the line? I got mine at advance for like, 50 bucks.
IggyEGuanaMar 31, 2010, 12:07 am · #609

noooo dont paint it black its ugly.  paint it a light color.  that bay will pop sooooo much more and u can spend lots of time cleaning it lol.  for realzies no black

mine is the regular rack but I cut the lines.  Didnt loop the lines or whatev.  just cut em and its great.

David BMar 31, 2010, 1:17 am · #610
seishuku

I'm also converting the steering rack to full manual, I'm just sick of trying to keep the damn lines from leaking.

drop all the sr shit and do this, write up please. lots of pictars
seishukuMar 31, 2010, 4:14 pm · #611
JayReplace the line? I got mine at advance for like, 50 bucks.
And have it break again? Nah. I like manual steering better anyway.
SprockCapnMar 31, 2010, 4:18 pm · #612
David Bdrop all the sr shit and do this, write up please. lots of pictars

I may also be curious about this too!
seishukuMar 31, 2010, 6:45 pm · #613

I can do that, I gotta let the paint dry on the main tube first though.

The key part here is this:
(https://i.imgur.com/I9XTck4.jpg)

Welding of the spool valve torsion component, only needs to hold it, so no monster weld needed (it's already strong enough to take steering stress). I used a nickle filler rod, so I can get good strength with little heat input.

Otherwise, removing of all fluid lines, internal fluid seals, anything that might cause friction internally. You still need the external seals, since you don't want dirt getting in.

seishukuApr 2, 2010, 11:48 am · #614

I pulled the bell housing off my trans today, to inspect where that whining is coming from... So far I haven't found anything for sure, though the counter shaft front bearing does have a little slop in it.

The gears do have wear, but it does have 160000+ miles on it, so that's not too surprising.
(https://i.imgur.com/B0N6dDq.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qwx07jC.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/orkGHMb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qp1Md1U.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/VbbmI9y.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nCAbrVH.jpg)

I have to remove the rear extension housing and inspect 5th and reverse, I did find some odd metal chips sitting in the speedo sensor area when I pulled that out. Not sure about that one.

seishukuApr 3, 2010, 12:51 pm · #615

Not really a good way to show the play in the bearing, but here's a video:
https://youtu.be/4WzAfs6xzjY

The bearing shouldn't have any play like that, and only the two front bearings do that. Though the main shaft bearing isn't quite as bad.

It still rolls really nice, but it shouldn't be that sloppy.

IggyEGuanaApr 3, 2010, 11:44 pm · #616

need a press to replace that bearing?  I'm gonna have to do the same thing

Wolf DilworthApr 4, 2010, 1:24 am · #617
seishukuI pulled the bell housing off my trans today, to inspect where that whining is coming from... So far I haven't found anything for sure...
...The gears do have wear, but it does have 160000+ miles on it, so that's not too surprising.

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/seishuku/Transmission/100_3140.jpg)

I have to remove the rear extension housing and inspect 5th and reverse, I did find some odd metal chips sitting in the speedo sensor area when I pulled that out. Not sure about that one.

Well all your gear clusters are scuffed on the toes, that can cause a whine.  Bearings will typically make a rumble or lower frequency sound.

160K is nothing for a trany, however, improper servicing will shorten the life considerably.  That scuffing could easily be from too long a gap between servicing.

That stamped steal piece in the foreground of the above shot needs to be standing up straight, it plays a vital role on moving lubricants around.  Also, make sure it is  oriented properly.  Check the FSM.

Do you have pictures of the "odd metal chips"?  Are they Chunks, Chips, Flakes, or?  Can you see where they may have originated from?  Chunks are bad, chips and flakes are not as bad...

Peace Wolf
seishukuApr 5, 2010, 8:48 pm · #618

Proof of concept:
https://youtu.be/KFmmjdnW4QY

200sxkitcarApr 7, 2010, 1:15 am · #619

nice!

where did you get that diagram?

a larger version available?

seishukuApr 7, 2010, 3:48 pm · #620

It's page 622 from the 86 FSM, I don't have the one for 87, but it's close enough.

Wolf DilworthApr 9, 2010, 3:08 pm · #621
seishuku
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/seishuku/PassSide.jpg)

Dude!  I seriously dig that reinforcing you did to the TC rod mounts, Bravo Zulu.  I think I might do a simple X pattern across mine.

Wolf
XanoApr 10, 2010, 4:27 am · #622

hey, i recognize that guy in that video thar

seishukuApr 10, 2010, 5:30 pm · #623
Xanohey, i recognize that guy in that video thar
 
(https://i.imgur.com/bnMbfQn.jpg)
Wolf DilworthApr 11, 2010, 1:32 am · #624
seishukuYea, it came out nice. I don't think it really made much of a difference though, but I can jack the car up by it!
The tubing was just scrap I cut out of an old sleeper sofa.

Hey, believe it or not, those old sleeper sofas used 4130 steel for the frames, I snag those frames every time I see an old sofa on the curb.

Wolf
Big BrotherApr 11, 2010, 1:44 am · #625

Cosworth makes good parts, I can vouch for that. When I lived in Sicily, my roomate and I each had a Ford Sierra Cosworth (16v turbo). We beat the living sh!t out of those cars, no mercy whatsoever. Mahle made the pistons in those YB motors, so you know it was some good stuff. Never blew anything up, and they were a lot of fun while we had them. Mine was a green top, his was red. Wish now that I'd had a blue top AWD Escort, that's straight road rally domination right there.

As an aside, I dyno'd my VW Beetle recently in Indy. It's putting 150 TQ an 120 HP to the wheels, which isn't bad at all for an air cooled non-intercooled 1.9L engine. I figure I should be into the 200 range once I get the meth spray installed and turn up the pressure... That's deep into the 12's in the quarter for a car that weighs 1800 lbs. Wish me luck, Union Grove Raceway is open!!!  

Better get that thing back together Matt, you should already have your tax return back.

Wolf DilworthApr 11, 2010, 1:45 am · #626
Xanohey, i recognize that guy in that video thar

Huh?  What video?  :o)

Wolf
seishukuApr 11, 2010, 2:03 am · #627
Big BrotherCosworth makes good parts, I can vouch for that. When I lived in Sicily, my roomate and I each had a Ford Sierra Cosworth (16v turbo). We beat the living sh!t out of those cars, no mercy whatsoever. Mahle made the pistons in those YB motors, so you know it was some good stuff. Never blew anything up, and they were a lot of fun while we had them. Mine was a green top, his was red. Wish now that I'd had a blue top AWD Escort, that's straight road rally domination right there.

As an aside, I dyno'd my VW Beetle recently in Indy. It's putting 150 TQ an 120 HP to the wheels, which isn't bad at all for an air cooled non-intercooled 1.9L engine. I figure I should be into the 200 range once I get the meth spray installed and turn up the pressure... That's deep into the 12's in the quarter for a car that weighs 1800 lbs. Wish me luck, Union Grove Raceway is open!!!  
Better get that thing back together Matt, you should already have your tax return back.
Ha... Our tax return was gone back in February.  Stupid bills.

But yea, the Escort RS and Merkur XR4TI (though not the same engine as the Sierra Cosworth, but still impressive) are still my favorite cars of all time. Simply bad ass.

If the pinch come down to it, I might try picking up a flat top Sentra SR piston and see if it's the same (if I can find a 65J cast flat), otherwise I found an awesome deal on SR20DET cast pistons.
I could get the engine back together for like $300, but it would just be 8.5:1 cast pistons.
Though if I could find a 65J 10:1 piston, I could pick up a chromolly ring set (to help avoid this problem in the future, though wall damage increases), hone everything and probably have everything up for around $200.

At any rate, it's going to be awhile.
And I *may* have to find another transmission, this one is starting to scare me.

I'll put up some pics why it scares me later.
XanoApr 11, 2010, 7:46 am · #628
Wolf DilworthHuh?  What video?  :o)

Wolf
click the top picture on the post here.

http://www.club-s12.org/forums/index.php?s...st&p=294572 (http://www.club-s12.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=18552&view=findpost&p=294572)
Wolf DilworthApr 11, 2010, 8:44 am · #629
Xanoclick the top picture on the post here.

http://www.club-s12.org/forums/index.php?s...st&p=294572 (http://www.club-s12.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=18552&view=findpost&p=294572)

Yeah, I forgot about that one, did not go back far enough trying to find it.

Wolf
Big BrotherApr 11, 2010, 4:16 pm · #630
Fox News, wrong again.

http://www.politicususa.com/en/maddow-fox-news (http://www.politicususa.com/en/maddow-fox-news)


Fox is but one outlet versus every other (Progressive) news organization out there, what are you really worried about here? If the Progressives are right, then Fox will go down in flames. If you ask me though, their ratings speak for themselves. Either they are right, or at the very least they have some very provocative TV. BTW, thanks for admitting to watching MSNBC. That's one confirmed viewer and counting...
MaxpowApr 12, 2010, 2:23 am · #631
Big BrotherFox is but one outlet versus every other (Progressive) news organization out there, what are you really worried about here? If the Progressives are right, then Fox will go down in flames. If you ask me though, their ratings speak for themselves. Either they are right, or at the very least they have some very provocative TV. BTW, thanks for admitting to watching MSNBC. That's one confirmed viewer and counting...


Lets keep that in Coffee shop. Not disagreeing or agreeing, but someone else's build thread is hardly a place for politics.
XanoApr 12, 2010, 4:21 am · #632
MaxpowLets keep that in Coffee shop. Not disagreeing or agreeing, but someone else's build thread is hardly a place for politics.
the guy with the cool mean looking s12 speaks truth.
seishukuApr 12, 2010, 9:54 pm · #633
200sxkitcaris that the appliance enamel?  good stuff, in either color, tho it only comes in white and black iirc.  shits starting to rust after being in that climate for awhile (car came from AZ for others reading)
Oh, and yeah, it's the appliance stuff, it's only a $1 more than the normal enamel, so I figured why not.
It covers better than the Rustolum ultra coverage too.
Neatness doesn't count on the bay though, it's going on heavy for max protection, both in the bay and in the wheel wells.

Oh, and Sterling, everything is still pretty damn clean and rust free, other than a few small areas with surface rust (like the lower front fender, near the door). It actually surprises me that it's stayed as clean as it has, even after being driven every winter for 4 years now.
Then again, I haven't pulled apart the rear yet, but probably nothing a little wire brush can't fix.
200sxkitcarApr 12, 2010, 10:09 pm · #634

thats good dude, i worry about the elements taking out that car.

that appliance paint is badass!  it takes like a week to fully harden! lol

Wolf DilworthApr 12, 2010, 10:28 pm · #635
Xano the guy with the cool mean looking s12 speaks truth.

Aw shucks, thanx Xano    

You are too kind, and it hasn't even fired up yet.  

Not to steal anyone's thread, but I should be getting the Red Rocket 2.0 on the road soon, finally got the title sorted out.

Peace, Wolf
Big BrotherApr 13, 2010, 10:00 pm · #636
Lets keep that in Coffee shop. Not disagreeing or agreeing, but someone else's build thread is hardly a place for politics.

Actually it's a re-re-RE build thread, but hey who's counting.  

WD willingly brings it into every thread he posts in.

Just pointing out the obvious. If he didn't want to stir chatter on it, he wouldn't have it in his signature. Since it is...I can play that game too. Now I have a cool counter-signature.
Wolf DilworthApr 13, 2010, 11:07 pm · #637
Big Brother

...If he didn't want to stir chatter on it, he wouldn't have it in his signature. Since it is...I can play that game too. Now I have a cool counter-signature.

Actually it WAS in my signature, I felt that being there it was safe since it has nothing to do with the topic and is purely up to the individual to decide if they want to click on it.  

I find it quite ironic that you sir call yourself "Big Brother" an obvious political innuendo, and you are allowed to run with it. Where as, I have to remove a simple tag from my signature.  

I will state here and now my own personal opinion that anyone that relies totally on Fixed Noise for anything alleged to be news, is a fool and an idiot.

That is my final word (of a political nature) on this hijacked thread which I had no intention of hijacking.  Others have made a mountain out of a mole hill, again.

If anyone has any heartburn over my statements, I invite them to address me via the PM.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programing.

Wolf "I don't need to hide behind fucking silly handles." Dilworth
US Navy Retired
sam31183Apr 13, 2010, 11:14 pm · #638

the name big brother is actually in reference to him being seishuku's big brother....but in all seriousness....political views belong in the coffee shop, not matt's build thread.

ArroApr 13, 2010, 11:15 pm · #639

Ok let's keep it on-topic. Next post off-topic gets deleted and user gets a sit-out lol.

ArroApr 14, 2010, 12:33 am · #640

OK, now that I know what all this bullshit is about, I have made the executive decision to allow Wolf to put back his signature content.

I've also posted this:

http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=29840 (http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=29840)

If anyone has a problem with that, PM me. Or take a flying fucking leap. Whichever you prefer.

And now this thread can go back to the discussion of Matt's S12, and what he's gonna do with his engine situation. As Sam put it best, any political discussions belong in "Coffee Shop", and under the rules regarding civil posting.

And remember, this stuff is in my signature as the first image. FOR A REASON, sheesh.

JayApr 14, 2010, 1:34 am · #641
seishukuApr 14, 2010, 9:11 pm · #642

Messy garage.
(https://i.imgur.com/vCoTI9J.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/PstE8P2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9B2SX3m.jpg)

Finished bay, just gotta reassemble the various parts then wait for the engine to go back in.
(https://i.imgur.com/bCAeYuJ.jpg)

Bare engine block, waiting to be honed to spec for it's new forged slugs. Just the block and crank.
(https://i.imgur.com/uQ0WHMn.jpg)

Here's some pics of the trans, on closer inspection there were a few chips out of the edge on the drive gear (4th):
(https://i.imgur.com/gaDNLsm.jpg)
It doesn't look that bad now, because I polished it up some, hopefully that will keep it from cracking the gear in half later on, at least until I can get a new one.

While I was in there, I cleaned up the reverse idler gear (the gear that you engage with when you put it in reverse), it was pretty chewed up, so I deburred it and polished it.
(https://i.imgur.com/bYzlsXE.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/d4ZQlqg.jpg)

Wolf DilworthApr 14, 2010, 10:32 pm · #643
seishuku(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/seishuku/Transmission/TransReverse.jpg)

"Messy garage."

At least you can get your "wheels" into yours.

"Here's some pics of the trans, on closer inspection there were a few chips out of the edge on the drive gear (4th)"

Yeah forth may make some noise fer ya... of course these trannies are much looser tolerance than what I worked on, so the noise may not be so bad.

"While I was in there, I cleaned up the reverse idler gear (the gear that you engage with when you put it in reverse), it was pretty chewed up, so I deburred it and polished it."

Dude, that reverse cluster is done, it may work for a while but I would bet it will be sketchy getting in at times, if not always.

Not trying to piss on your parade, you are doing a great deal of work and learning plenty too. Bravo Zulu for the effort, takes commitment.

Time to go to the JY and start pullin Z trannies, for the internals, lotsa good mix and match stuff. only thing not usable is the tail cone, shift linkages and the output shaft.  Grab yourself at least three different 71-C's Look for the bands on the input shaft, they indicate the ratios inside.

Stay away for the T-5's, nothing usable there.

I wait till the local Pick-n-Pull has a sale and grab 71-C's for half price.

Peace, Wolf  
seishukuApr 14, 2010, 11:09 pm · #644

Nah, it still engages the normal half gear when in reverse. It was already hard to get in some times, so no loss there.
I'm not going to go around beating on it in reverse anyway, it's not meant to take a big load.

JayApr 14, 2010, 11:14 pm · #645
Wolf DilworthI wait till the local Pick-n-Pull has a sale and grab 71-C's for half price.

Peace, Wolf

No local pick-n-pulls up here. at all......

We have overpriced boneyards that don't keep any imports at all, Matt's situation may vary slightly though. But I don't think so
sam31183Apr 14, 2010, 11:16 pm · #646

I do all of my performance driving in reverse...

Wolf DilworthApr 14, 2010, 11:28 pm · #647
sam31183I do all of my performance driving in reverse...

Drive it like you stole it, in reverse.  

Wolf

[!--quoteo(post=295902:date=Apr 14 2010, 11:09 PM:name=)--][div class='quotetop']QUOTE( @ Apr 14 2010, 11:09 PM) [snapback]295902[/snapback][div class='quotemain'][!--quotec--]
Nah, it still engages the normal half gear when in reverse. It was already hard to get in some times, so no loss there.
I'm not going to go around beating on it in reverse anyway, it's not meant to take a big load.

Just sayin the gears are supposed to have points on them.  GgGggGrind'em till they grind no more...    

Wolf
seishukuApr 14, 2010, 11:40 pm · #648

They do have points... I just put a bit of a taper on the front edge, to ease engagement, rather than trying to bang it into a chipped up edge.

Wolf DilworthApr 14, 2010, 11:59 pm · #649
seishukuThey do have points... I just put a bit of a taper on the front edge, to ease engagement, rather than trying to bang it into a chipped up edge.

Don't see any points on the "edges" just lumpy roundness...  

Wolf
EternalSwapApr 15, 2010, 12:38 am · #650

R for Race!