What's Your Timing At?

Started by misterrick · Nov 18, 2007 · 15postsInvision 2005–09

misterrickNov 18, 2007, 11:04 pm · #1

im just trying to get an idea of what everyone was running for timing, and at what psi. ive started tuning my microtech ems on my own now and dont wanna wreck anything by advancing it too much. right now the way its set is dissapointing. theres no intense top end pull, it just kicks you from 4000-5500. i did some playing around with the boost controller and can get stable boost through the rev range now but it still seems weak at high rpm sad.gif if i wanted low end power i would have bought a v8!

sorry for the long rant

sideways dannyNov 20, 2007, 1:24 am · #2

misterrick @ Nov 19 2007, 12:04 AM
im just trying to get an idea of what everyone was running for timing, and at what psi. ive started tuning my microtech ems on my own now and dont wanna wreck anything by advancing it too much. right now the way its set is dissapointing. theres no intense top end pull, it just kicks you from 4000-5500. i did some playing around with the boost controller and can get stable boost through the rev range now but it still seems weak at high rpm sad.gif if i wanted low end power i would have bought a v8!

sorry for the long rant

whats the rest of your spec? smile.gif

drfts12Nov 20, 2007, 1:50 am · #3

I have mine advanced all the way

misterrickNov 20, 2007, 2:42 am · #4

whats all the way though? i need to know an amount in degrees. my CAS is set at 0 and the timing is controlled by the EMS

SR20D21Nov 20, 2007, 2:59 am · #5

sideways danny @ Nov 19 2007, 05:24 PM
whats the rest of your spec? smile.gif

What turbo,manifold, boost, what timing and fuel maps are you running maf map?etc.,.,.etc.,.,.Mine at 16 pounds and a t3/4 40trim started pulling hard about 3200 to 3500 and pulled hard until 7000 to 7200ish kept bouncing the limiter. I'm on a sr20det base reflash 13 to 16 psi max boost timing is at 12* + base I'll double check I kept the timing very close to stock and added fuel to be on the safe-ish side

Jdm spec base timing is 15*

Are you getting stable boost on your logs?? no spiking and falling off? Look at you trace compared to afr,knock logs if your getting spikes on both drop the timing on top.

misterrickNov 20, 2007, 4:05 am · #6

im running the stock t25, stock manifold. i was getting unstable boost at anything over 10-12 psi, so im gonna stick with about 11psi for now just to be stable. im not running a maf as my EMS eliminates it. for timing in the low end, its at 30deg. and in the top end i think its as low as 0. im not sure my mechanic had tuned the timing. i'll take pics of my timing and fuel maps in the next couple days when i get the laptop out.

SR20D21Nov 20, 2007, 8:22 pm · #7

misterrick @ Nov 19 2007, 08:05 PM
im running the stock t25, stock manifold. i was getting unstable boost at anything over 10-12 psi, so im gonna stick with about 11psi for now just to be stable. im not running a maf as my EMS eliminates it. for timing in the low end, its at 30deg. and in the top end i think its as low as 0. im not sure my mechanic had tuned the timing. i'll take pics of my timing and fuel maps in the next couple days when i get the laptop out.

stock t25 is best left alone or around 9 or 10psi at the most, at 10psi mine would creep back to 8 psi by rev limit! They also tend to make good power in the mid and sign off on top the more you push them the more this becomes apparent. What are your afr's and knock logs above were its tapering off?

misterrickNov 20, 2007, 11:28 pm · #8

my a/f ratio stays between 12.5 and 11.8. i dont have a knock log because for some reason microtech doesnt use that funtion in their EMS'

is there a way to hook something up to my knock sensor to monitor it? ive googled it a few times and can never get a good answer

SR20D21Nov 21, 2007, 12:48 am · #9

misterrick @ Nov 20 2007, 03:28 PM
my a/f ratio stays between 12.5 and 11.8. i dont have a knock log because for some reason microtech doesnt use that funtion in their EMS'

is there a way to hook something up to my knock sensor to monitor it? ive googled it a few times and can never get a good answer

Yes, if you have a voltage data log input(say 0-5v or 0 to 12v) Just tap the output from your knock sensor into this.If your input offers scaling or calibrating to plot range choose this it will make it more accurate. You could use a real time digital gauge but that would be very hard and no way to overlay boost,afr,rpm, egt....etc

gerrybgNov 21, 2007, 1:03 am · #10

smile2.gif Get rid of that stock T25 and get a T28 and then your dissappointment will disappear

SR20D21Nov 21, 2007, 1:17 am · #11

gerrybg @ Nov 20 2007, 05:03 PM
smile2.gif Get rid of that stock T25 and get a T28 and then your dissappointment will disappear

That would true if his tune is ok, put a t28 on a bad tune and its still a bad tune. If your afr is going between 11.8 and 12.5 thats a fair bit. You should be staying within around 2 tenths. Mine are 12.0 to 12.1 across the board at 10 psi 13psi 12.2 to 12.3 16 psi was getting WAY to lean for the stock injectors maxed out and I wouldn't have pushed except for knowing it was coming apart the next day

Without being there i would say it may be a little bit of the tune a little bit of the turbo and the rest of the setup. I would say with the standalone get a good turbo,mani and injector setup then have someone help you thats familiar tuning the microtech to get a good base tune and go from there.

misterrickNov 21, 2007, 1:27 am · #12

gerrybg @ Nov 20 2007, 06:03 PM
smile2.gif Get rid of that stock T25 and get a T28 and then your dissappointment will disappear

dont worry i plan on it. but right now i have no money, and tuning is free

SR20D21 @ Nov 20 2007, 05:48 PM
Yes, if you have a voltage data log input(say 0-5v or 0 to 12v) Just tap the output from your knock sensor into this.If your input offers scaling or calibrating to plot range choose this it will make it more accurate. You could use a real time digital gauge but that would be very hard and no way to overlay boost,afr,rpm, egt....etc

so i could perhaps hook the knock sensor up to say..a narrow-band a/f gauge?

also, will the a/f ratio drop when i advance the timing? i have a wideband a/f going all the time to monitor it.

SR20D21Nov 21, 2007, 2:19 am · #13

misterrick @ Nov 20 2007, 05:27 PM
dont worry i plan on it. but right now i have no money, and tuning is free
so i could perhaps hook the knock sensor up to say..a narrow-band a/f gauge?

also, will the a/f ratio drop when i advance the timing? i have a wideband a/f going all the time to monitor it.

The microtech has no data log input for voltage?

If by drop you mean increase numerically, lean out or go closer to stioch (14.7 or lambda 1) then yes, Hypothetically if you increase your timing at a given rpm, boost level without increasing the fuel(if your timing is on the conservative side) yes you would get leaner say going from a 11.8 rich to 12.0 leaner afr and a bit more HP. But increase to much you can run into knock and still have good(rich afr) if you had to much fuel initially.

SR20D21Nov 21, 2007, 3:56 am · #14

misterrick @ Nov 20 2007, 07:42 PM
the microtech might perhaps have a data log input for voltage, i didnt look into it enough. so essentially as long as i watch my a/f i can keep advancing the timing until i find the "sweet spot" and i wont have to worry about knock?

Its better to keep the timing closer to base and then add fuel as you add more boost and pull timing. You can add timing in at lower levels to get better/quicker response. Yes you need to worry about knock and to much advance.
Do you know someone that has a known good cadet base map for your microtech you can download? Thats were I would start.

misterrickNov 21, 2007, 4:47 am · #15

i cant add any more boost right now with this turbo, so im trying to make as much power as i safely can at this level, which is why i want to advance the timing