Rear End/differential Variations

The diagram is on the wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_200SX#S12

Thank you sir

So am I correct that the VG30E cars all came with 3.90 gears?

Yes sir

Thanks!

How does the R200 differ from the R200V found in the limited slip diffs in S13/J30 chassis besides the obvious viscous limited slip part. Physically how are they different if at all?

I believe they have a longer snout than the J30 and the S13 rear ends, and so the pinion gear would be different. If I'm putting it the right way. Brewster knows something about Infiniti components, maybe he can chime in and verify or correct me if I'm wrong.

I know that the ABS model S13 has a longer snout as opposed to the non. I wonder if the non ABS diff will fit?

yeah, when i get off my ass and go out to the garage ive have both style diffs in my garage. ill snap some pics.

the non- vlsd differential will fit the s12 diff housing.

the housing, and ring and pinion are different, as well as the output shafts.

What you guys don't really know is which R200s have the 10mm bolts and the 12mm bolts. Or maybe it's just me. haha Anyway thanks to the Z31P member for this image. Supposedly he has the full program for searching up nissan part numbers and whatnot.

well the difference with the open vrs. vlsd differentials is the output shafts.

so if i have an r200 diff can i use an s13 vlsd???

i have an ABS vlsd S14 diff w/6 bolt output shafts. can i use this unit? Anyone know how?

You cannot use the VLSD diff unless you use the VSLD input shafts. If use the VLSD shafts, you'd have to make new half-shafts for it to work with the S12 arms. You could maybe use the Z31 VLSD shafts, but those are rare in itself and you'd have more trouble finding those shafts than the Z31 VLSD.

To get an LSD for the R200 longnose, you will need an S13 LSD designed for an S13 OPEN DIFF CASE AND OPEN DIFF INPUT SHAFTS. The S13 open diffs use equal length shafts on both sides, which have the same spline count(29) and length as an S12 half-shafts.

The VLSD uses unequal length input shafts(one side is longer than the other) because that is how the VLSD works. So if you get an S13/S14/J30/whatever VLSD or an LSD designed for an LSD case/LSD differential/LSD input shafts, it WILL NOT WORK WITHOUT CUSTOM HALF SHAFTS. This also includes the S15 HLSD with 30 spline count, because you would have to use those input shafts.

Hello! May I, even though I'm new,suggest to add some R180 info on the first post also, browsing around I found so much misinformation about it and got really confused.

The info that would be cool to post is the R180 LSD options, such as the old Zs and the Subarus that have this same diff. I KNOW I can find it searching but as I said, while searching probably 80% of what I found was wrong and/or incomplete and/or just guesses.

So does it matter what R200 differential ratio I get with my CA18DET powered 200sx?  I have options of:

4.11:1

3.90:1

and 3.545:1

From what I can tell the 4.11:1 would give me better acceleration, burnouts, and drifting, and the 3.90:1 and 3.545:1 would give me progressively better fuel economy, and conversly, progressively weakened acceleration.

Can someone fill me in?  Thanks!

It is 100% sure that I can use the s12 opencase for S13 LSD opencase?

S13 LSD designed for S13 open case will also fit in S12 case.

Make sense?

Hey guys quick ? anyone know what the pinion angle is on the S12 solid rear?

if this is in the wrong post, im sorry..   would this diff work in our car ?   http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Kaaz-2-Way-...sQ5fAccessories

or any one the is made for OPEN s13 case right??

Just want to fix some mistakes with this thread:

1. You don't need custom manufactured CV's to fit an S13 or series 1 s14 VLSD diff centre into an s12 series R200.What you need is to blend a LHS S12/Z31 CV with a RHS S13 or series 1 S14 CV. Its just a matter of dismantling the inner CV bearing on each type of shaft and reassembling the S12/Z31 Cv with the S13 or S14 series one Bearing and 6 bolt cover fitted to it. Then the output shaft that slots into the diff can be bolted up to it, (you need to cut 8mm off the end of the output shaft spline using a cut off wheel) and this new hybrid CV shaft then fits into your s12 and operates the viscous diff.

Anyone with an angle grinder and spanners can do this.

The s13 and s14 6bolt CV bearing are a direct swap with the s12/Z31 ones and the CV shaft is the same diameter.

KEY POINT: series 2 s14 onwards diffs (and Z32's etc) use CV's 5 bolt type which have a bigger diameter shaft and splines, so these diffs and CV shafts will not work for an s12 diff!!

2. An mechanical LSd centre to suit an s13 or series 1 s14 6 bolt originally OPEN diff will fit an s12/Z31 housing and work with the NORMAL s12 and Z31 factory CV's no problem, (BUT NOT a replacemnet diff centre to suit a Z32, s14 series II diff as these need bigger diameter splines)

2. An mechanical LSd centre to suit an s13 or series 1 s14 6 bolt originally OPEN diff will fit an s12/Z31 housing and work with the NORMAL s12 and Z31 factory CV's no problem, (BUT NOT a replacemnet diff centre to suit a Z32, s14 series II diff as these need bigger diameter splines

Fact is they have tried it I have done it on mine.

gerrybgIts just a matter of dismantling the inner CV bearing on each type of shaft and reassembling the S12/Z31 Cv with the S13 or S14 series one Bearing and 6 bolt cover fitted to it. Then the output shaft that slots into the diff can be bolted up to it, (you need to cut 8mm off the end of the output shaft spline using a cut off wheel) and this new hybrid CV shaft then fits into your s12 and operates the viscous diff.

Seems like most of the info around S12 diff swaps are related to using S13/S14 parts, but does anyone have in info about using the CLSD longnose from the 88-89 turbo Z31? Or what about swapping to the commonly available subie CLSD R180 longnose?

Both of those options are bulletproof and a way better option than any VLSD imo.

You can use the longnose from the 88-89 turbo's. Get the axles to be safe and they should work fine with our cars. These are harder than hell to find in my area, if you can find them they are worth more to sell on the internet than to keep.

I am curious about the subie thing though.

The subie R180 is identical to a Z r180 when it comes to mounting. The issues come when considering the axles, which are CV joints. This usually requires custom axles that still rely on the S30's stub axle, a major weak link imo.

The S12 already has CV shafts though, so I was thinking it might be possible to tear the subie axle apart and mate it with the S12 axles. There's also the R160 which is the same physical size, and ridiculously cheap, and will hold at least 300hp or so. The subie clutch r180 has proven to take well over 600hp with no signs of stress. They bombpoof.

The CLSD Z31 diff is hard to find anywhere, but I've been lucky enough to find a few. Sold them all though, needed the money more than I needed the part.

Interesting. Some people on the site think that if the s12 axles are opened they cannot be put back together, but I "rebuilt" one by opening it and lubing it and it seems to work fine so it might be a possibility to do what you are suggesting.

The junkyards around here don't have ANY subies period... at least I am not seeing them so I am curious what kind of prices you can find for those r180's and r160's... however, why not just get an OBX LSD Unit and swap it into an R200. The r200 is a great fucking diff there is no denying it. Things last forever, my last one made it a whopping 285,000 miles before it finally died (never had fluid replaced, metal soup).

Yea, the R200 is a stout piece for sure. But LSD conversions for the longnose are pricey. I could probably snag a CLSD R160 with axles for under $150. The subie R180 would probably be a bit more, but still quite a bit less than the CLSD R200's. The cost and availability are the main reasons S30 guys convert to the short nose diffs. Plus another benefit is that the R180 is quite a bit lighter. Not a huge deal, but it's a factor.

Another reason to consider the R180 for some people would be that they might already have a R180 in their S12, making it an easier swap.

All this being said, you S12 guys have it way easier than S30 guys, because the S13 diffs are almost bolt in compared to our Z car options.

Gollum on 10:40:57 AM / 06-Jan-11All this being said, you S12 guys have it way easier than S30 guys, because the S13 diffs are almost bolt in compared to our Z car options.

So if I were to swap a 3.54 r200 into my SE I should see about 10-11% decrease in rpm's at a given speed? I realize less torque but that's not really that much of a problem, I need gas mileage and top speed. Remote mount will solve any torque issues down the road.

just some info to add if it helps anyone
the front pinion flange on a s13 diff can be swapped to a r200 s12 diff. i know this because i had a custom driveshaft made for my ka s12 swap and ended up with s13 rear diff flange on the driveshaft.  rather than have them redo it and have to order parts in i used the pinion input flange from an s13 open diff.  all i had to do was swap the dust shields that protect the front seals.  mounting depth and spline count are exactly the same.
this may be usefull since i was able to use the same ujoints for both ends of my driveshaft and the increase in strength at the flange.

Boing!

RLM_RSX on 07:22:04 PM / 24-Jan-11just some info to add if it helps anyone
the front pinion flange on a s13 diff can be swapped to a r200 s12 diff. i know this because i had a custom driveshaft made for my ka s12 swap and ended up with s13 rear diff flange on the driveshaft.  rather than have them redo it and have to order parts in i used the pinion input flange from an s13 open diff.  all i had to do was swap the dust shields that protect the front seals.  mounting depth and spline count are exactly the same.
this may be usefull since i was able to use the same ujoints for both ends of my driveshaft and the increase in strength at the flange.

Sorry haven't been on here for ages. My description above is confusing on one point. Its the standard s12 R200 CV for the LHS you need to cut 8mm off the end of the spline that goes into the diff, not the hybrid s13/s12 RHS CV, (sorry I was tired when I wrote that).

Cost is not prohibitive, I got my VLSD s13 CV centre for $80 and it had been reshimmed  to very tight by its previous owner, (you also need to get the RHS output shaft and RHS CV with it).  Hardest thing was tracking down an extra LHS s12/Z31 R200 CV to hybridize for the RHS.

I also paid a diff specialist to set up the backlash with the new centre fitted.

The reason I did this is because I'm a tight arse and it was very cheap to do compared to trying to track down a long nose clutch type R200. I'm in Australia and they are very rare and expensive here, might be cheaper and more readily available in the US. If so then that would be a better option of course.

Does anyone know which of these quaife diffs i need? I have a  86 200sx (ca20e originally) irs open diff r180

http://www.quaifelsd.com/applications.aspx
Nissan R180 24-280Z (110mm crownwheel)   [4spd 1969- 7/1976]  QDF4L 1,069.75
Nissan R180 24-280Z (115mm crownwheel)   [4spd 8/1976>]         QDF5L 1,069.75

 If not one of these,what brand and what real diff do i need for my r180? I've been searching for days trying to find a direct swap diff to buy. I have no time for going to the junkyard and searching for something that requires modding to work. I just want to spend the money and get a real diff and be done.  Thanks for any help.

noone knows? :gum:

Calm down lol, its only been a day since you posted and we all can be busy :) We that have the R180 are almost limited to welding the diff.... If you do manage to find a Quaife (I would be pretty jealous as i want one to) You need to get the 115mm crown. I have heard a murmur of a R160 out of a Subaru WRX bolts in but i have yet to know if that is in fact true, It does seem plausible but dont take my word on it just yet. I am looking for one locally to try :P

awsome thats more info than i had if i find anything useful ill let you guys know too

Hello

S12 europe CA18ET R200 = 3.7  not 4.1....

Couronne: 37 dents
Pignon: 10 dents

37/10= 3.7 ^^

^interesting... are you sure it's the stock gearing? Maybe it was swapped by one of the previous owner of the car to get better gas mileage...

Yes, sure ! S12 100% stock !

yes, majority of the z31 diff are 3.7, some 3.54, but for the s12, at least in north america, to my knowledge, we never got it, the ca20e and ca18et were both 4.1 and the vg30e were 3.9

OK but in europe, S12 CA18ET, 3.7   ;)

hello, first post after reading through this thread. and im a little lost about what can go into a r200 s12 diff.... so i need your help.

i am looking to do a IRS rear end swap on my ae86, ive seen a couple of s13 rear ends done before, but i dont want to go that route (although i may be..), because it extends the width of the rear end 30mm on each side, and im not down with that, nor do i really wanna rock a wide body... so i eventually figured it out that s12's arent as wide as s13's, so im looking into putting one in my 86.. so my question is:

i know these 84-88 s12's have the r200 diff, and weir performance makes a spool diff for the s13, i know both s12's and s13's are r200 diffs, just not sure what diff housing, stub ears, and half shafts i have to use to make this spool a bolt in affair... any help? thx in advance

heres the link to the spool:
http://www.weirperformance.com/spoolslimitedslipunits.html

Widths of vehicles:
s12 (84-86)-     65.4"     
s12 (87-88)-     65.7"     
s13-                66.5"
ae86-              64"
NA (miata)-      65.9"
NB (miata)-      66"

edit:
i found a stock picture of an s12 rear end on google images, now i cant find it... can someone send me a pic of it? thanks.

edit #2:
im a dum dum, i forgot about the miata rear end.. i didnt even think about it as a possibility, worst part about this is, i have a miata. -__-

First of all, why in the heck do you want to do that to an AE86?

Second, why the hell did you choose the s12 rear end... you should be running away from it, it carries a virus called negative camber which cause the hellaflush disease...

Seriously, stick with your SRA buddy... it might not be the most advance suspension design but it is light, tough and very predictable (toe and camber are always fixed whatever the position of the suspension).  The S12 trailing arm design changes camber as it moves up and down, so you end up with way too much negative camber if you drop the thing...

Your stock T rear end (6.7") is good for 150 to 180 ft/lbs of torque before you need to worry... If you want to upgrade above that, weir also makes a spool and big ass 31 spline axles that are bolt on in your current housing and can withstand up to 350ft/lbs.  If you don't want to go with a spool and keep a diff, you have access to the F rear end out of the 1st gen supra with up to 300ft/lbs of torque capabilities... if you'd like an LSD with that, swap the 1st gen diff with a 2nd gen supra P-type (IRS) one, as simple as that...

above that, you can always swap in a ford 9" for the ultimate indestructible rear end... but that's an other story

It is not that big a deal to add adjust-ability to the S-12 rear end, if you are going to fab up a totally different car. Puts an end to the Hellaflush disease.  The proper height can be built in.

Any IRS design is a huge improvement over SRA any day.  SRA only good for 1/4 mile.  S-13 design is better (more adjustable) than S-12, though.

Hello.

Thanks a lot for all of the information. I understand the option using S13/14 components - thats GREAT!

Can anyone offer infomation about possibly using a factory longnose R200 LSD from an R31 Skyline.

I have access to the diff casing and centre at no cost, I need to know whether I will have output/input shaft issues and if so, what those differences are and how to rectify or fabricate to suit.

Thanks a lot. (car is an 84 IRS CA18ET Notch)

dumb question probably, but lets say i use a z31 3.7, and find an aftermarket r200 lsd, does my final still stay or is that dependent on what i buy for aftermarket?