Ka Vs Vg

i know it has been discussed before but i cant find anything i was wondering what is a better swap as far as performance. which is better and why it is going in a 84 hatch.

well these are my 5 reasons for going KA over a VG

1. the KA is smaller and then a VG.

2. KA's are everywhere, i went to a junkyard and found 5 KA'd cars (3 trucks, 1 b13 or some shit car with a KA and a S13 with a KA)

3. this is more of a old skool engine in a new skool generation and you can do alot to it.

4. parts from other engines swap over (l28ET oil pump etc etc)

5. it's SOOOOOOOOOOOO much easier working in the engine space. the VG is a HUGE engine for a v6.

If you've ever worked on a VG powered car you'd know those engines are a bitch to work on BUT they can be just as reliable as a KA. seen some Z31 Vg's with 350,XXX miles on the original VG.

+1 everything above plus if your car isnt originally a vg you will have to swap the vg cross member and MAYBE the vg mounts.  Overall the ka is an easier swap to do and they can still make pretty good power for less weight of the vg.  Less weight = more speed, better handling, etc.  KA FTW!

i have a vg crossmember that i can have for free if i want it i went to school with the owners daughter

Which VG are you talking about?

i had the idea of putting a ka in my vg, but after doing some research, it seemed like a pain in the ass with the cross member, wiring and the rack and pinion. just not worth it for me. so i got a ca car. since you have a ca car you would have it get the cross member, wiring harness and the rack and pinion for a vg. if you had a se parts car it would be worth it, but if you dont, go with a KA. more aftermarket parts, you can get about anything you want. its a great all around motor. not saying the vg isn't, mine has 250,xxx miles and its still runs strong. its just easier to do a ka

i am talking about the vg33e block and ported heads, and the se in the junkyard is my parts car

which one do you think is better?

i dont know i was wondering how much diffrence the weight from the vg would affect handeling

kyskateri dont know i was wondering how much diffrence the weight from the vg would affect handeling

no i havent that is why i am asking to see if anyone could tell me which one is better

CA18ET_ - 118 kg 260 lbs
CA18DET - 128 kg 282 lbs
SR20DE -- 139 kg 306 lbs
SR20DET - 149 kg 328 lbs
FJ20ET_ - 166 kg 366 lbs
KA24DE_ - 167 kg 368 lbs

The VG weighs 392lbs WITHOUT accessories

how much does the weight affect the balance for drifting

i couldn't tell you that i honestly don't know  

it makes sense to me though the the less a engine weighs the less stress it is on the suspension, and it eats up tires less.

jsut my 0.02

it would be badass with a built n/a vg33, with some nice nasty cams. or even put DE heads on it

drifting a stock engined vg car isnt too bad, but you can feel the weight

i beleive that the vg would be cheaper to build a na vg33 than ka-t, is that correct also what are some good cams

Okay, I am really getting tired of all you 'younger' guys worrying about weight in our cars.  Our cars are not light to start with and a SE with all it's extra weight are still very capable.

The KA is great but you will lose the low end torque but it naturally makes up for it in the midrange.  I love the VG, but unless you have all the necessary pieces, I suggest anyone to go KA24DE.  I've owned both types and the KA24DE is a very capable. motor.

the only True S12 that hold the title for the lightest is the 1984 SRA CA20E notch S12.

weighing in at 2,300lbs or 2,400lbs

heaviest is the Se weighing in at 2,900 lbs

it doesn't matter though, the 300ZX moves and so does the VG. both Z and S12 are VERY capable cars you just gotta know what you're doing.

if you know what your doing a S12 can become a absolute MONSTER on the track

http://www.racesilvia.com/cmsms/index.php?page=kori this is an example of said monster

If you've ever worked on a VG powered car you'd know those engines are a bitch to work on

VG's not the issue VG is and AMAZING engine but it's the engine space in a S12. he's not a Se, so he doesn't have a VG in his, he's asking about putting one in.

it's a very tight fit, even for the Z31 it's a tight fit. and Z32 TT drivers have a harder time working in them.

I use to own a Z31 and did alot of playing. it's a GREAT engine it's proven it's self over and over and over again. but again, our S12's don't have the engine space a Z31 or a Z32 have.

I suggest a VG33ER or VG30ER if you even go the VG route because you would have to cut the firewall for a turbo or you can do it MC's way rear mount exhaust turbo. or just go with a vortec supercharger.

EDIT: I saw the Z31 build thead alot of crap had to be custom made to make it fit.

people who do VG30DETT swaps in S12's are insane and props to them.

from a guy whos driven a turbo model and the vg model as my own.the vg is far more responsive.it would be a firce s12 with a vg33.if you get a ka..have fun with that.the vg is the best stock engine to ever come in any american market s chassis.go with the vg

The ka24de is not worth it if you already have an SE. If you want to go with a ka24de, a ca20e or ca18et s12 is a much better platform to start with. There were only somewhere around 10,000 SE's made. I would say go with the remote mount turbo (http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=8278) or supercharge (http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=18030&hl=Boost+is+good). The vg30e isn't all that much heavier than a ka24de. The remote mount makes the most sense to me since all the weight your adding is mostly to the rear which is better for weight distribution.

vg30et>ka24et

caraudiofooleryvg30et>ka24et

Draconis
Agreed

The vg30e is a great engine because you can mix match Parts with other vg's and make a killer hybrid.

VG30et put out the same amount of h.p. as a red top sr20det, At a fraction of the price.

vg is a stronger engine hands down.

fact

Both KA and VG can support 400WHP on stock internals.

as i said before VG's are great engines, but so are KA's

jeffwins24 fact

Both KA and VG can support 400WHP on stock internals.

as i said before VG's are great engines, but so are KA's

jeffwins24fact

Both KA and VG can support 400WHP on stock internals.

as i said before VG's are great engines, but so are KA's

which one is the best bang for the buck for reaching around 275hp. that is my goal and i must reach it with any powerplant

kyskaterwhich one is the best bang for the buck for reaching around 275hp. that is my goal and i must reach it with any powerplant

im not one sided.in my driving opinion the vg is a lot funner and more responsive and ready for spirited driving.

Redneck
You said you have an 84 hatch so it should be safe to assume that you have a ca20e or ca18et. If that is the case the ka24e or de is going to be the easiest way to get 275hp (especially if you are measuring at the crank). At least between a vg30e and a ka24e or de.

nismologist im not one sided.in my driving opinion the vg is a lot funner and more responsive and ready for spirited driving.

kyskaterwhich one is the best bang for the buck for reaching around 275hp. that is my goal and i must reach it with any powerplant

rage the problem with the vg is where are you going to put the turbo?

rage
ka-t, definitely. the problem with the vg is where are you going to put the turbo?

main problem is you cant do this



stock location turbo vg-t would be sooo easy

but you can do this



http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=8278

or



http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=19671

or

mount the turbo where the cat goes

or do twins

with the vg30et, you could mount the engine forward with efans, or bang out the firewall to fit it in the stock location, depends how far you want to go with it

jeffwins24VG's not the issue VG is and AMAZING engine but it's the engine space in a S12. he's not a Se, so he doesn't have a VG in his, he's asking about putting one in.

it's a very tight fit, even for the Z31 it's a tight fit. and Z32 TT drivers have a harder time working in them.

I use to own a Z31 and did alot of playing. it's a GREAT engine it's proven it's self over and over and over again. but again, our S12's don't have the engine space a Z31 or a Z32 have.

I suggest a VG33ER or VG30ER if you even go the VG route because you would have to cut the firewall for a turbo or you can do it MC's way rear mount exhaust turbo. or just go with a vortec supercharger.

EDIT: I saw the Z31 build thead alot of crap had to be custom made to make it fit.

people who do VG30DETT swaps in S12's are insane and props to them.

Hey,,this is jonsey fellas..I know it takes a little more work but we do what we do right......how about a Vh45 conversion,,thats what I'm planning and my resouces is limited..lil bit welding(custom sub
frame),,nice lite weight alumi block,,it will fit tight but it will,
we should have all been there before,,,sts turbos & presto 4 to 600
at the wheels easy,,,a real torque monster in a s-12...its alresdy
been done & I don't know the guy(siverbox)but I thought of this 2yr
ago and he made it real,,right on this site,,,absolute frankinsteinish,,f-in killa and I don't want to be the only 1 to follow this mad doctor but I will & I am..the shizzznick,,,,,,,
pease till later.........

what is the highest compression vg33e that is avaliable

anyone know how big of a nitrous shot i can go on a rebuilt vg reliably

kyskateranyone know how big of a nitrous shot i can go on a rebuilt vg reliably

kyskaterwhat is the highest compression vg33e that is avaliable

jeffwins24100 - 150 and your pushing it. you also need fuel management for it. (injectors)

yeah a tuned wet nitrous setup will actually be pretty reliable

DraconisYou'll need more than just injectors.  FPR, Piggyback/stand alone, better fuel pump, maybe a resistor for your injectors, maybe a better fuel rail, a Maf to handle the increased power or go Map (really only needed for high power).

i was looking at going with nistune its cheap and alot of peoplewith 240's run it and are fimilar with tuning with it. that is unless there is a better option?

Depends on your goals but for the most part, Nistune will be fine for your applications from what I can tell.

And Jeffwins, I assume you are being sarcastic.   I just wanted to make sure since you only listed injectors when there are a bit more to a fuel management system for someone who may not be as fully aware of all the parameters.

I would only go VG in a car that came with one. A stock KA24DE will feel like a beast compared to a CA20. Add a turbo later if you want more power.