Iggy's Det On The Dyno

Car: 85 Nissan s12
powerplant: ca18det lightly modded lol
owner: Waylon (Iggyeguana)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuIyVv-ZdlY

Needs a fuel pump and he would run much higher numbers

If the transmission and axle loss is about 30% Iggy should have about 300hp at the flywheel!

congrats! 200+whp should be fun for the s12. spray some water/meth in that biatch!!!

Praizewood
If the transmission and axle loss is about 30% Iggy should have about 300hp at the flywheel!

The first pull I did netted 153 but the tach signal was not on correct.  Had to wait til everyone else was done then ran again with the tach on correct.  202 with lean AFRs.

lol bout 30%.  Where peeps hearin that stuff?  read this
http://www.sdsefi.com/techdyno.htm
So yeah who knows how much anybody is really making.

nice dude!  that thing is puttin some power down!

IggyEGuana
lol bout 30%.  Where peeps hearin that stuff?  read this
http://www.sdsefi.com/techdyno.htm
So yeah who knows how much anybody is really making.

I;ve always wondered why they don't do the pull in fifth gear instead of third

LOL@ Victory Dance

Thats 202 w/out an intercooler!  Very good man!  Add an intercooler to the flow and then really shit on that 202hp.  Fuck haters cause they would still lose to this "pos", of course its not but still.  Cool stuff!  

and yest Im liking the exclamation point tonight!!!

SlickS12
Thats 202 w/out an intercooler!  Very good man!  Add an intercooler to the flow and then really shit on that 202hp.  Fuck haters cause they would still lose to this "pos", of course its not but still.  Cool stuff!  
and yest Im liking the exclamation point tonight!!!

Heres the list of things to be done before hitting the dyno again.

Get the water/meth injection setup done.
Walbro, Nismo FPR, and fuel pressure gauge.
Bigger MAF and intake piping (stock pipe and MAF right now).
Retune with real SAFC. The VAFC works but there are some limitations due to being designed only for honda/acura.

"Install a FMIC" is not on the list and will not be on the list.  This car is not a high HP build.  Its a drift/track/dick around havin fun build.  The pressure loss and lag you get from a FMIC ae not worth the lower intake air temps.  The meth/water injection system is more effective than a FMIC.  Both together is the best setup for power but the injection alone will be ebough for me.

Heres the sheet


When you think about it after all those mods are done and I run it on 14psi instead of 12psi I should be able to make over 250whp on this turbo.

deja vu from my garage thread lol

The pull should be done in 4th gear, not 3rd. 4th is the 1:1. 3rd gives you a false reading. I'll take it with a grain of salt.

You're putting down better than stock power for sure so good job with that. But with a 3rd gear pull I'm not buying it.

And yes I have experience with a wheel dyno. I went with my cousin to have his stang last month. 4th gear pull netted 283.6 rwhp. With some tuning I'm sure there are a few more ponies in there. He didn't have the extra cash for that at the time though.

I can only imagine what would have happened if they did it in 3rd. Sheesh it would have been something close to 340 rwhp.

Cool. Put some big fans infront of the car.

Instead of a SAFC might I suggest a NIStune Type 1 Board they are $400. You can now view and log RPM, Speed, MAF voltage, O2 sensor, Temperature, Battery, Timing and various switch settings. Diagnostic Terminal Codes can monitored and cleared. You can also perform real time tuning with this board!

This board along with the NIStune software provides consult capabilities (including Diagnostic reporting) and map tracing for non-consult Nissan ECUs like the CA18DET.
www.nistune.com/

Hell ya go iggy. I wish I could put down number like that in my SE.

IggyEGuana

When you think about it after all those mods are done and I run it on 14psi instead of 12psi I should be able to make over 250whp on this turbo.

Hey keith he also has a tubular mani and the exhaust cam mod not sure what that will net...

vg30e_x2_200sx
The pull should be done in 4th gear, not 3rd. 4th is the 1:1. 3rd gives you a false reading. I'll take it with a grain of salt.

You're putting down better than stock power for sure so good job with that. But with a 3rd gear pull I'm not buying it.

And yes I have experience with a wheel dyno. I went with my cousin to have his stang last month. 4th gear pull netted 283.6 rwhp. With some tuning I'm sure there are a few more ponies in there. He didn't have the extra cash for that at the time though.

I can only imagine what would have happened if they did it in 3rd. Sheesh it would have been something close to 340 rwhp.

Noooo.......has nothing to do with believing or not. It's about torque multiplication. 3rd gear is not 1:1 so therefore you are putting more power down to the dyno. Do it in 4th like Keith did and then post the numbers. I'd respect that all day long. 3rd gear pulls make it look like you have more power than you actually do.
Don't believe me? Do it in 1st gear and see what you come up with.

sideways_s12Hey keith he also has a tubular mani and the exhaust cam mod not sure what that will net...

KeithHmmm....should be making more than me with my current set-up

Wow, good numbers. Now you definitely just need to get those a/f ratios down to 11.5-12.

Sounds like you guys are going in the right direction with the fuel system. Good work so far!

It would be nice though to post your mods in the first post with the dyno run or dyno sheet to let everyone know what your mods were at the time of the run so it's not scattered all over the thread.

sideways_s12yeah but he was lean that's why I saying he needs a fuel pump the stock s12 pump is maxing out and can't give it anymore fuel

silverarrow27Wow, good numbers. Now you definitely just need to get those a/f ratios down to 11.5-12.

Sounds like you guys are going in the right direction with the fuel system. Good work so far!

It would be nice though to post your mods in the first post with the dyno run or dyno sheet to let everyone know what your mods were at the time of the run so it's not scattered all over the thread.

No problem at all, it was just a suggestion so he or you don't get bombarded with questions about his mods later on.

makes sense

all I have to say is yeah boi! lol

what kind of ebay clutch did you get?

^^^
They're all the same.  Go with the one with the best feedback.

IggyEGuana^^^
They're all the same.  Go with the one with the best feedback.

The flywheel is for the Ka I presume?

yep. why?

was trying to find an aftermarket flywheel for my 18et with no luck lol I got the same clutch though it works with the ca18et you just have to dremel one of the bolt holes cuz it's off like a mm

just put on my clutch and flywheel today fit like a glove. i did my ebay header too. what a bitch that was. the egr tube didn't fit right but i got it on.   it looks bad ass i must say

You know, 13:1 AF is ideal for power... However since you're running with out an intercooler, you'll want it in the range of 11:1 - 10.5:1.

BUT, since you're planning on using alcohol injection, you could keep the 13:1 AFR and use a 60/40 meth/water mix spray as you come into around 5PSI and make more power.
The problem with this however, you have no way to fine tune your timing. SAFC will not cut it here, you'll need ECU programming for that.

Actually, with 60+ alcohol at 0-5PSI, you can actually run much more timing at 13:1 AFR. But if you want it be decently reliable, I would shoot for 12:1 - 11.5:1 AF, inject a minimum of 50/50 mix at 5PSI.
Unless you slap an intercooler on it, and run 93 octane (which you should be running anyway  ).

I have 10.8:1 at WOT and a 50/50 mix @ 5PSI, and my timing map is actually still way too conservative when it starts coming into boost. I could still pull out a lot more torque on boost, even though I'm running 10:1 compression NA pistons.

BTW, a small intercooler (25" wide, 8" tall, 3" deep) isn't going to add any significant lag or pressure drop, I'd venture a guess that you couldn't tell the difference. It would give a lot more leeway in tuning and more more power, especially if you're going to be running at poor T25G at 14PSI (basically being a hot air gun at that point).

Just some food for thought.

First off to all the people who keep arguing me about the intercooler thing.  I am not saying that intercoolers don't work or that they're pointless or that you're dumb for using one.  I am saying that people need to recognized that there are trade-offs that go with the benifit of lower intake air temps.  My build is geared toward mid to top end power and throttle response in drifting/screwing around applications.

So intercooled vs non-intercooled.
Throttle response and especially the response between shifts or when working the throttle mid drift.  Think of it this way.  You're WOT and you let off the throttle.  The BOV lets off and evacuates the majority of the air mass contained within the whole of the charged air path.  Then you get back on the throttle and the turbo has to repressurize all that volume before any pressurized air even makes its way into the engine.  Boost response.. its all about boost response.

And a longer pipe of a given diamter offers more resistance to air flow than a shorter pipe of the same diameter. lol

Oh and as for pressure drop I'll leave this one to the pros..
From: http://www.turbomustangs.com/turbotech/main.htm
"Another aspect of intercoolers to be considered is pressure drop. The pressure read by a boost gauge is the pressure in the intake manifold. It is not the same as the pressure that the turbocharger itself puts out. To get a fluid, such as air, to flow there must be a difference in pressure from one end to the other. Consider a straw that is sitting on the table. It doesn't having anything moving through it until you pick it up, stick it in your mouth, and change the pressure at one end (either by blowing or sucking). In the same way the turbo outlet pressure is higher than the intake manifold pressure, and will always be higher than the intake pressure, because there must be a pressure difference for the air to move.

The difference in pressure required for a given amount of air to move from turbo to intake manifold is an indication of the hydraulic restriction of the intercooler, the up pipe, and the throttle body. Let's say you are trying to move 255 gram/sec of air through a stock intercooler, up pipe, and throttle body and there is a 4 psi difference that is pushing it along (I'm just making up numbers here). If your boost gauge reads 15 psi, that means the turbo is actually putting up 19 psi. Now you buy a PT-70 and slap on some Champion heads. Now you are moving 450 gm/sec of air. At 15 psi boost in the intake manifold the turbo now has to put up 23 psi, because the pressure drop required to get the higher air flow is now 8 psi instead of the 4 that we had before. More flow with the same equipment means higher pressure drop. So we put on a new front mount intercooler. It has a lower pressure drop, pressure drop is now 4 psi, so the turbo is putting up 19 psi again. Now we add the 65 mm throttle body and the pressure drop is now 3 psi. Then we add the 2.5 inch up pipe, and it drops to 2.5 psi. Now to make 15 psi boost the turbo only has to put up 17.5 psi. The difference in turbo outlet temperature between 23 psi and 17.5 psi is about 40 deg (assuming a constant efficiency)! So you can see how just by reducing the pressure drop we can lower the temperatures while still running the same amount of boost.

I have seen some misunderstandings regarding intercooler pressure drop and how it relates to heat transfer. For example, one vendor's catalog implies that if you had little or no pressure drop then you would have no heat transfer. This is incorrect. Pressure drop and heat transfer are relatively independent, you can have good heat transfer in an intercooler that has a small pressure drop if it is designed correctly. It is easier to have good heat transfer when there is a larger pressure drop because the fluid's turbulence helps the heat transfer coefficient (U), but I have seen industrial coolers that are designed to have less than 0.2 psi of drop while flowing a heck of a lot more air, so it is certainly feasible.

Pressure drop is important because the higher the turbo discharge pressure is the higher the temperature of the turbo air. When we drop the turbo discharge pressure we also drop the temperature of the air coming out of the turbo. When we do that we also drop the intercooler outlet temperature, although not as much, but hey, every little bit helps. This lower pressure drop is part of the benefit offered by new, bigger front mount intercoolers, by bigger up pipes; and by bigger throttle bodies. You can also make the turbo work less hard by improving the inlet side to it. K&N air filters, free flowing MAF pipes,  removing the MAF itself when switching to an aftermarket fuel injection system,  these all reduce the pressure drop in the turbo inlet system which makes the compressor work less to produce the same boost which will reduce the turbo discharge temperature (among other, and probably greater, benefits)."

HAHAHA ok ok nobody read that, its ok

Check out http://www.driftopia.com/
Heres a setup he ran thats similar to my current setup.
 

Now hes using the side facing intake mani from the FWD CA16/18DE.



I'm gonna go ahead and publicly predict that more and more tuners are going to start using chemical intercooling setups.  No air-to-air!  GET ON THE BANDWAGON NOW!! lol

^^^This is exactly why I like him lol (no homo) and exactly why I like him helping me...

I don't have a problem with you running non-intercooled, I was just sayin, especially since you're planning on using water+alcohol.

Another point for using an intercooler, would be to reduce the dependency on the water/alcohol mix... Running out of the mix while WOT would be bad if you heavily depended on. That's the main reason I have an intercooler, otherwise I would be running boost pipe like yours and have some insane timing, also I would be using 100% meth.

It's all good.  Check out this >> http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=145 << its the "Water/Methanol Injection, Nitrous & Intercooler Cooling" forum on NASIOC.  These guys know whats up.  Most of us arent going to tune so close to the ragged edge as a lot of them but the knowledge they've gained by doing so is invalueable.

Oh yea, I've used that for some info when I was setting up my system.
Mostly for nozzle size, pump, fluid mix, etc.

IggyEGuana : 202 hp is very good mate !