Carbon Fiber Parts - Seriously Folks!

Some of you may remember me from awhile ago. I used to have an '87 hatch w/ a KA24DE swap. Loved that car, wish I still had it! Anyway I have moved back to the Northwest where I belong and I am starting a new career at an advanced composite company in Tukwila, WA. (just south of Seattle,WA) The reason why I am writing this post is that we have the capability to make truly lightweight parts here. We have the ability to do a composite hood with honeycomb core in any fabric you desire (carbon, aramid, fiberglass, hybrids, you name it) I know you guys want these things. Heck the flared fenders that were coming out of eastern europe a few years ago would be sweet, so would an SE lip kit. This is the real deal here folks, but here's the kicker, we must be serious about this. Tooling will not be cheap (unless you can provide us with your own tooling) but the parts will be top notch. I need your input, is this something we really want of just a pipe dream. It would require an investment (probably on a club level!) to make this happen but the results would be that the club would own the tooling reqired to produce as many copies as we need for whatever part we want. Think about it. You can reach me at [email removed] or [phone removed](work). Check out our website at www.FiberDyneOne.com where you can see products that we have made in the past. (Top Fuel wing produced over 3000 lbs of down-force and weighed only 5lbs.!) If you want it we will make it.

carbon fiber se lip kit would be sick
turbo hood would we dope or the turbo scoop
i think we would all like to know how much were looking at to get stuff made in CF first to see if anyone would really be interested

Tooling for a hood would be aprox. $3000-3500 US with parts cost of around $5-600.00 ea. in Carbon Fiber. Remember however that the club would own the tooling. Personaly I would do the lip kit in GRP(fiberglass) it's too vunerable to inpact.

Would be nice if everyone had 600bux laying around....because i know damn well i dont hahaha......people have tried time and time again with group buys but the truth is most of us are low budget builders and a majority of the cars are not running......

So you would need about five buyers to get tools needed and would that included labor and CF???

I would LOVE to do a turbo hood in aramid or aramid carbon hybrid. Would look sexy as fawk

Yeah a carbon Kevler hybrid hood would be sweet, light as can be too, and aramid fibers can be dyed so you can have the classic yellow/green, green, blue, and red. My sugestion is that we get the various clubs together and pool resources. There are 8 different clubs represented here and I do not know how many individual members. Don't tell me we couldn't gather enough funds to do this right. I know that there is a market we just need to prioritize and decide what parts NEED to be reproduced and if we are willing to do what it takes to make it happen. I bet if each club did some sort of fund raiser and decided on ONE product then we would have a nice range to choose from and a resource to draw upon when needed. I would look at doing a replacement for the rear spoiler in glass or carbon (it's 2 piece and I know that the urethane parts are not weathering well), Hood (Turbo and gen2), SE kit, a proper airdam and the Grand Prix kit. Once the tooling is made we can lay up whatever material floats your boat. You want cosmetic only? We could do a Carbon outer face w/ glass inner structure. You want race parts? Full carbon with 1/8" nomex honeycomb core. You get the Idea? You want it we can do it!

I would say a hatch would be the first part I would want. It's the heaviest part that bolts onto our cars. A SEV6 hood would cross over to coupes and hatches.

I have a minty SE v6 hood I could "donate" for a mold, and it helps that I'm local.

Would you be interested in doing this for say, another group of enthusiasts as well?

Definitely would be interested in a hood, hatch, and fender flares if we're able to pull enough buyers for resourcese, carbon fiber / carbon kevlar.

acadianasportscars on 07:52:36 AM / 22-Apr-11Would you be interested in doing this for say, another group of enthusiasts as well?

I guess nobody wants this stuff?

Do the hatch! It's the biggest weight that could use reducing. That shit is heavy.

zastaba on 01:31:33 AM / 26-Apr-11Do the hatch! It's the biggest weight that could use reducing. That shit is heavy.

Hatch!!! find out a price i would be happy with fiberglass.

Cost would be similar to a hood both tooling and part cost though you coul knock $100-$150 off the part cost by going with fiberglass. It would still be half to one quarter of the weight in GRP!

TURBO HOOD AND SE LIP.

Yay im not the only one wanting a turbo hood :D, I think any of the above would be pretty awesome. If i was working right now i would help fit the bill for some of this shit. I should be going back up north pretty soon, just doing online courses

These are all great contenders. Like I said if each club could finance the tooling for one project than we would only be looking at part costs.

i would love the turbo hood

Replacement hoods would be nice even if it were only in fiberglass.  Anything would be lighter than the one there now and costs would be cut slightly =\

TechDaddy

This "club" does not charge dues, what imaginary bank acct. do we "Finance" the tooling from?  We will still have to pay for the tooling even if we have a club bank acct.  Then the club would own a mold that has to be taken care of by whom and where. Again, this "club" does not have any hard assets, ceptnfer a server maybe.

The other problem is that most of the folks on this forum are half broke most of the time, myself included.  If you can get more than a half dozen folks to commit to "a" project (first hurdle) and get them to plunk down some hard earned cash deposits (second really big hurdle), I would be willing to bet it is a cold day down south.  Six hoods are going to cost at least $1000.00 ea. + shipping.  There is a reason there are very few aftermarket parts for the S-12's.  The only stuff we have is what cross fits from the Z car scene.  Plenty of attempts have been made by individuals to offer parts for the S-12 scene, most are done on a shoe string budget by one or two individuals who soon find out they are not getting rich and usually lose interest and disappear.  Anyone intending to make real profits...  Greener pastures.

I am capable of doing the work to produce a hood mold (including hinge and latch hard-points), for around a grand, but my labor costs me...   I can take six weeks or six months, my choice.  I will have myself a really nice light hood when I am done.   Even if I did sell a hood, shipping would nearly double the cost of the hood, but if someone wants a really exclusive hood.  

I have been mulling over several concepts for S-12 goodies, including: rear hatch w/acrylic window, cowl induction style hood, front bumper cover with integrated lip, fixed headlight buckets with clear acrylic covers.  I am not all into in the carbon craze.  Don't get me wrong carbon does have its place, structurally, but S-glass cloth is damn near as strong and way easier/cheaper to work with, all hand lay-ups and NO glass matt or chop-gun bullshit.

Sorry, I am not trying to shoot you down or anything, just injecting a little dose of reality here. 

Good luck, again.

You have some excellent points. I'll address yours and give you mine. No the club has no hard assets, but what keeps that from happening? A bank account can be set up in less than an hour so that is a moot point. Funds for a project of this magnitude are generated everyday by clubs all over the globe and it could be as simple as donating your spare change every month via Paypal to the club account. You would all be surprised how quickly funds build that way.
We would hold the molds here and produce parts as needed. No worries there and if the club chose to move them or take possession in another way that would be fine as well because it would be their mold. I believe I addressed the lack of money issue though I will address it again. People come up with the money to do what they want for our cars, we all know that. The biggest issue is the distinct lack of Styling parts for the S-12.
Europe has the Grand Prix Flares though even those are in need of better distribution. We in the US have several options for appearance upgrades but they all revolve around OEM parts that are becoming scarce. There are flat, turbo and late model hoods, various tail lamps, SE lip kit's (getting hard to find now). Japan has their own JDM parts that would be awesome to have available such as the RS-X grill and rear lip. There are many opportunities to offer completely new products Air Dams and rear bumpers come to mind.
I personally do not care what materials these items are made from, carbon, glass, or aramid. Heck we can use a honeycomb core if you want to get really fancy and lightweight.
As I see it if someone does not step up and start making some replacement parts though we will all be looking for a new platform. The supply of good used parts will eventually dwindle to next to nothing, fenders and hatches are prime candidates here. I love the S-12 and want to see it respected for the great car it is but part of that process involves aftermarket support/recognition. I am looking for vision and a willingness to develop beyond what we have become as a community.

TechDaddy on 12:54:29 PM / 18-May-11A bank account can be set up in less than an hour so that is a moot point. Funds for a project of this magnitude are generated everyday by clubs all over the globe and it could be as simple as donating your spare change every month via Paypal to the club account.

TechDaddy on 12:54:29 PM / 18-May-11
As I see it if someone does not step up and start making some replacement parts though we will all be looking for a new platform. The supply of good used parts will eventually dwindle to next to nothing, fenders and hatches are prime candidates here.

i would buy turbo hood fenders and trunk lid in anything cf, fiberglass etc
i think we could pull together to maybe make it work

The way I look at it is this.

IF. and this is a BIG IF.

IF we could get the molds made.
and IF the company would hold on to said molds indefinitely
and IF they would price them out on individual parts AND Kit costs
AND IF wasn't retarded expensive.

There MIGHT be a hope for the S12 having some kind of body panels in the future.

Yeah, I would love to see cheap body parts of all kinds IE: hoods, fenders, hatches, lip/skirt kits, etc..  The fact remains there is just not enough return on the investment, we do not have enough volume.  Z cars and the like will see such a return...

Just a ball park guestimation for the cost of various molds:

Hood = $3000.00 (each variant)

Hatch = $3000.00

Lip/Skirt kit = $1500-2000 (May be much higher due to complexity)

Fenders = $1000.00-1500.00 (each Side)

GP Knock-Off = $$$$$

Wanna lay odds any one of these gets off the ground?  Hate to be the stick in the mud...

I think the idea of after market parts is a great one. I think moving this club up to the next level is also a great one. Its not that hard to set up office. I'm sure there are more than a few people on here that have the time and would be more than willing  to put in the work to be in office. A contribution account wouldn't be that hard to set up for a non profit club. I have been a part of a few online auto clubs/forums and have seen what could happen when people put there minds to it. Its not much more work than being a mod really. that's why you brake it up into offices, that way you take the task of running a club, and brake it up for more people to handle. I would be a part of that, but im new here and have yet to earn that trust and respect. I was a part of a mirage/ colt forum a few years back, that club was much smaller than this with a much less capable platform. The only thing that chassis has going for it is the 4g63t. But those guys pulled together quite a few group buys. A cf hood was one of them, and they were just a broke as us. They were all low budget. I get that money is the biggest factor, and none of us really have it, but we all know people don't stay broke forever. So what keeps platforms like ours down is the lack of effort. I have seen how much a engine swap is, but some how many of you find a way to pay for that. I would say the biggest down fall to our platform is its price. Its great for us guys that have no funds and can get the car for well under a grand, but then there are you guys that have been around for ever. I cant imagine how crazy it must make you to know that your pride and joy that you have sunk thousands into, wouldn't fetch you 2k if your life depended on it. Or if by the unfortunate event you totaled it. The insurance company wouldn't give you but 500 bucks for it. The sad thing is here in the states, the 2 biggest sport compact magazines that sale here have both featured great examples of our cars. Hell SS's coverage of the JCCS last year had pics of 3 of them, but for some reason our cars just don't get any love by the guys that make the parts. This platform will pick up. When all the ae86's run dry, and more and more guys are looking for cheep rwd platforms, you will see people turn to them. Eventually some after market companies will see what's going on and it will spark an interest, when that happens we will lose control over our platform, and you will see a big healthy s-12 page over on zilvia with a bunch of boners telling everyone what's cool to do with there cars. If I had the funds I would invest in the future of our platform. Starting with having all the forms made, along with some key suspension parts. Because we all want them, but when your broke, most the time, how in the hell do you expect us all to have the funds at the same time. But if they were there for us when we needed them, they would sale. 
So I say to you Techdaddy, talk to your boss, remember that before you can make a profit you need to spend money, and I doubt highly they ever built a mold knowing they were going to make money. However you have been here. You see how much coin people here drop on there cars. When you have limited funds you don't want to part with them with out knowing your getting something. So I say you guys build the molds, just a few at first, then when you see that people are interested build the rest.

that's all I have to say, Ill step down from my soap box now,
Thanks for reading my uneducated rant.
oh and molds dont have to be so much, I have seen fiberglas molds that hold up built much cheaper. I did one for a lip for my old colt, well it was a lot more than just a lip, i spent just over 500 bucks in fiberglass. no it wasnt the best mold ever, but it worked, and it was my first try so the waist was very high.
Thanks, Benjamin

hood and hatch
lip would just get busted, should be made from something that is more... durable.. urethane or something that is cheap to replace IMO

but hood and hatch are whats up... really tho a lot of the weight in the hatch has to be the glass... right?

so maybe hood and fenders? lighten up the front, even out the weight distro?

Deco

I could see the club growing but, "Non Profit" is much harder than you might think.  There are legal docs that are filed with the IRS and banking records to maintain.  Throw into that mix a "for profit" venture... I am not going to put my butt on that line, especially by proxy.  I belong to a local 501(c)3 here in Austin, that is enough of a hand full and all our members are basically local.

phantommaggot2 on 05:12:07 PM / 24-May-11really tho a lot of the weight in the hatch has to be the glass... right?

Tell ya what TechDaddy

You make em, I'll Pay for em. I would love some lightweight drive-train parts as well.

 Stuff ill pay for for the s12 (as long as its not ludicrous prices) :

Cf trunk
I need a spoiler that looks good on a notch. I always wondered what a gtr34 spoiler would look like on a notch
cf paneling for the interior, just some little bits here and there. Cf switches would be an awesome little tidbit to have.
Cf hood with a good vent design on it. You come up with something unique but tasteful and we can talk.

that's about it for me. I need two of each as ill be surprising someone with a set as well.
Come up with tangible prices and shipping and well have a nice little conversation. Id be glad to be one of two people rocking custom parts!

You speak with intelligence though not all your facts are true but that is because you do not know that much about our company. We do not make tooling on speculation though I might offer to produce tooling based on an educated guess that a market exists. I know that a market exists for these parts the prices quoted by Wolf Are not too far off though the quality would be significantly higher than your average automotive aerodynamics company. We specialize in aerospace and high end marine products. Yes the club could make this happen. Hell, one products profit coul fund the next project if you were to reinvest. I do not know that the community here has the culture to make this happen. It's sad really that the one s12 club in the world with the highest member count can't manage to get beyond bickering and whining about how broke they all are and how we are incapable of organizing ourselves to the point of making something like this happen. I suspect that there are factors within the community that refuse to allow the reigns to pass to those who might have greater vision or who have taken the blinders off and realize that the only reason we have a viable platform at all is because we are able to freely borrow from other Nissan vehicles and because we have a knowledge base built up from years of trial and error. Ahold we stay were we are or progress towards a higher purpose and really let the world know what we are capable of. Ok, I'm done ranting now but if CS12 can't see this through then I will shop the idea to otter S12 sites/clubs. Others have already expressed an intrest. I thought I'd give my home club first shot. First product would most likely be an SE lip kit. It has the most worldwide demand and would be economical to ship.

deco on 11:46:15 AM / 24-May-11I think the idea of after market parts is a great one. I think moving this club up to the next level is also a great one. Its not that hard to set up office. I'm sure there are more than a few people on here that have the time and would be more than willing  to put in the work to be in office. A contribution account wouldn't be that hard to set up for a non profit club. I have been a part of a few online auto clubs/forums and have seen what could happen when people put there minds to it. Its not much more work than being a mod really. that's why you brake it up into offices, that way you take the task of running a club, and brake it up for more people to handle. I would be a part of that, but im new here and have yet to earn that trust and respect. I was a part of a mirage/ colt forum a few years back, that club was much smaller than this with a much less capable platform. The only thing that chassis has going for it is the 4g63t. But those guys pulled together quite a few group buys. A cf hood was one of them, and they were just a broke as us. They were all low budget. I get that money is the biggest factor, and none of us really have it, but we all know people don't stay broke forever. So what keeps platforms like ours down is the lack of effort. I have seen how much a engine swap is, but some how many of you find a way to pay for that. I would say the biggest down fall to our platform is its price. Its great for us guys that have no funds and can get the car for well under a grand, but then there are you guys that have been around for ever. I cant imagine how crazy it must make you to know that your pride and joy that you have sunk thousands into, wouldn't fetch you 2k if your life depended on it. Or if by the unfortunate event you totaled it. The insurance company wouldn't give you but 500 bucks for it. The sad thing is here in the states, the 2 biggest sport compact magazines that sale here have both featured great examples of our cars. Hell SS's coverage of the JCCS last year had pics of 3 of them, but for some reason our cars just don't get any love by the guys that make the parts. This platform will pick up. When all the ae86's run dry, and more and more guys are looking for cheep rwd platforms, you will see people turn to them. Eventually some after market companies will see what's going on and it will spark an interest, when that happens we will lose control over our platform, and you will see a big healthy s-12 page over on zilvia with a bunch of boners telling everyone what's cool to do with there cars. If I had the funds I would invest in the future of our platform. Starting with having all the forms made, along with some key suspension parts. Because we all want them, but when your broke, most the time, how in the hell do you expect us all to have the funds at the same time. But if they were there for us when we needed them, they would sale. 
So I say to you Techdaddy, talk to your boss, remember that before you can make a profit you need to spend money, and I doubt highly they ever built a mold knowing they were going to make money. However you have been here. You see how much coin people here drop on there cars. When you have limited funds you don't want to part with them with out knowing your getting something. So I say you guys build the molds, just a few at first, then when you see that people are interested build the rest.

that's all I have to say, Ill step down from my soap box now,
Thanks for reading my uneducated rant.
oh and molds dont have to be so much, I have seen fiberglas molds that hold up built much cheaper. I did one for a lip for my old colt, well it was a lot more than just a lip, i spent just over 500 bucks in fiberglass. no it wasnt the best mold ever, but it worked, and it was my first try so the waist was very high.
Thanks, Benjamin

my post above.

Do Want

Tech - You have a PM sir.

We aren't going to manage a bank account for any aftermarket projects unless they are produced, branded, and sold as Club-S12 items.

Every year this subject comes up. Every year its the same.

In the end, nobody here in this thread will pony up the cash to do this, right? SO what is the point, Wolf is spot on.

what would be the cut that the owner of the molds make for every item sold???... might be a good way to lure investors in if you'd tell those guys how they'll make profit out of it... cuz as Wolf said, nobody here will forward the cash out of generosity...

You will not see ANY profit for the hood, as an example, until you sell $3000.00 worth.  Let's say the unit price will be $400.00 (prolly closer to $500.00) that is 7.5 hoods to cover cost of the mold. 

There will be shipping costs, $150.00 to $200.00 (guestimation) per unit.  $550.00 shipped is not very likely, $700.00 more realistic. 

Now find 6 -8 folks to pony up seven big for a hood, if the whole run hit double digit numbers I would be surprised.  More likely break even on the venture...  Not trying to piss in anyone's Wheaties, but...

I see no one read what I wrote

Fyne

Read it.

"...lightweight drive-train parts..." Are you talking drive shafts and or axles?  Or suspension pieces?  The latter is too risky from a liability standpoint.

"as long as its not ludicrous prices"  This statement negates this entire discussion, especially concerning the above items.

"I need a spoiler that looks good on a notch. I always wondered what a gtr34 spoiler would look like on a notch"  May be a little too specific, taste, for the mass's.

"cf paneling for the interior, just some little bits here and there. Cf switches would be an awesome little tidbit to have." Personally, I abhor CF on the interior, just automotive Masturbation.  That said, I do have a CF shift knob and that sucker weighs a pound, easy.  It was laying around and looks better than the OE options.

"Cf hood with a good vent design on it. You come up with something unique but tasteful and we can talk."  By "vent" I suppose you are not talking scoop/ram air.  done poorly, the results usually hurt performance, you really need to understand/study the dynamics of what is going on in there.  If you are talking ram-air then every engine application will have different properties, no "one-size..."  Do you really want to go changing the airflow through the engine bay?

driveshaft. love a carbon Kevlar clutch but that's for big power.
By ludicrous i mean above 8k.
the spoiler was just for me, personally. For most people their needs can be met by aftermarket.
 on the interior, i don't want any big pieces, just the door switches, and maybe....maybe gauges

yeah, i mean a scoop. Im not gonna have a race car, its just for cosmetic appearence. I can sacrafice a bit of performance for that. A SCOOP like the z31 hoodscoop would be proper fit.

to be quite honest its not that hard my uncle is a genius with fiberglass c/f ect with something to start a mold its not that hard

it's not a question of "hard". it's a question of time, shipping, and materials.

A driveshaft is not only a liability, it's difficult to manufacture a proper CF shaft that is going to be stronger than a steel one.... you don't just mold and sand it, because it's not a skin or common form. Also, not all CF material is equal, and mechanical CF parts such as that use very expensive CF materials.

I already commented on expenses.
I've found a company that is willing to work with me and make what I WANT!!!

Good onya.

I PM'd TechDaddy about a legitimate interest in getting some information on getting a particular part made. I ended up emailing him and got a response. :)

I think he got tired of taking a beating, not that I was trying to give him one...  Hope he finds those greener pastures.