84 S12 KA-T Drift Debauchery Extravaganza

I'll start off stating that I'm not a mechanic, just a hobbyist.

I've already show the ride in the my introduction, but I'm going to start putting my build / rebuild here.
I've decided against making this a drift car, for now, since I've been convinced to just do a restore since it's in pretty good shape.

A trip to AutoZone and $200 later, I had a new battery, all the fluids, oil filter, and other misc. tools.

I changed out the battery, topped up the fluids, and the car turned over! The excitement didn't last long.
The moment I pushed the throttle a little bit, it died again and I couldn't get it to start back up.  Probably sucked up some bad gas.

Tomorrow evening, I'm going to try to change oil and bleed clutch.
If you have suggestions or tips to get it running, let me know!

Do you hear the fuel pump run when the key is turned on?  Should run for 5-10 sec then stop when pressure is reached. Do you have spark?

I think the fuel pump turns on. I hear a slight *huummmmmmmmmm* when I put the key in the "run" position and then it stops.
I'd assume that I'm getting a spark since I did fire up once. Sounds like combustion is about to happen, but doesn't keep on firing.
I will try to get some audio / video of it next time I get to work on it.

Thanks!
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The hum is the fuel pump, so that's good. Sounds like it wants to go so probably spark ok. How old and how much bad gas is in the tank? Change the fuel filter yet?

Eh just toss the CA and get a KA.

Schizo, Schizo, Schizo

If you haven't put gas in it, and it's been sitting a while, this while likely be your problem.

Either drain whats in the tank out if theres a bit, or just put some new stuff in.  If there isn't much, it'll dilute the bad gas to a usable point.  Just keep switching the car to ON then OFF and back again a few times as the fuel returns to the tank if not used, that'll get new stuff through the fuel lines.

On a more serious note, will it start if you spray starting fluid into the manifold?

I'll try to get some fresh fuel in the tank tomorrow. Gauge shows about 1/4 full, assuming that the gauge works.
It'd probably be best to drain the gas and change the fuel filter before putting fresh fuel in.

Today I managed to bleed the clutch. I found a "one person bleeder kit" at autoZone which helped a ton. Good use of 8 Dollars.
That kind of brings me into another issue. There is more rust in this chassis than I previously thought. While I was jacking the car, the points that the jack was on were "raining" rust.
Looks like I'm going to have to get out the angle grinder and my welder. But that will come later. I just want to get it running right now.
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SchizophrenicMC on 12:11:00 PM / 08-Feb-15
On a more serious note, will it start if you spray starting fluid into the manifold?

IggyEGuana on 06:19:18 PM / 10-Feb-15
Bummer youre not gonna make it a drifter and that youre actually working on the ca20. That rust will probably change your mind tho. Rusty cars drift fine.

lol that's one sad sounding CA - and that's coming from a guy on his 3rd one in 30 years!! I hear lots of valve train noise - the black top ca's have mechanical lifters that need adjustment - you FSM will guide you. How's oil pressure at idle? Running on new gas yet? How do the plugs look as well as dizzy cap & rotor? Do you know the 2nd set of plugs on the exhaust side are for emissions only.

@Rednucleus, Those are a lot of good questions and the answer to most of those are, I don't know. haha.

I put in a gallon of 93 Octane yesterday to see if that would help things out. I need to quit being such a pussy and bear the cold in the garage and finish changing the fuel filter.
Haven't checked  plugs, which should have probably been one of the first things on the list.
The dist cap, rotor, and leads  look like they've been replaced at some point.

I'll muck with it some more tomorrow.

after hearing about the issues this car has, and seeing the pictures, go ahead and drift it. its good to know if it were a clean shell you wouldn't, but it sounds like the rust is starting to take hold, and there's no stopping it now. I'd say Go ahead and drift it - the body work, as you said, will never be done. there are cleaner shells out there.

it does sound like it's got a blown exhaust gasket and some lifter noise.

but sell me the front corner lights/grill/valence first.... And if/when you strip the interior - I need a random piece from the hatch interior trim. LOL

didnt hear it but i imagine its got detonation from bad gas and probably running on 3 cyls. plus whatever is making it die.

if you decide to make it a drift car dont worry about the rust. a roll cage will eliminate 90% of any structural rust worries. then you just stitch the front end and where the firewall bracing on the side and into the floor is. anything else would be for looks. but rust looks cool too so

also theres probably several people in the southwest who would buy your dash if it really is cherry. looks like it. maybe dash swap with someone

I think I may have  found my engine donor.
The 2000 Nissan Frontier has a KA24DE with a 5 Speed, right?
There's a junk yard here in Indy that has one (the truck) in it's inventory.  I'm going to have to make a swing by to see if it has its engine, transmission, and any other nice toys that I may need and see if any of it is usable.

May have to wait till payday, Friday, to make a move on it though. I'll also need to rent a pickup truck.

the mount brackets will be wrong and I think the trans will be too short but not sure on that. Truck gearing might get annoying after a while tho. GL

Well, balls.
I figured at least the engine would drop in nicely, but if the mounting brackets are different, I don't want to mess with it.
I really need to read up on the engine swap threads.

Not sure the mount brackets would be wrong, but the oil pan + oil pickup would be. The truck gearing may actually be good for mad slides.

Really, your source car for ease of swappage is an s13 or s14.

Found a salvage yard that has '91 and a '93  S13.
Now I've just got to make a stop by to see if they have engine / trans intact.

I've read some of the KA Tech threads and I'm trying to figure out what all I need to gank from the S13.

• Engine
• Transmission
• Front portion of S13 Drive Shaft
• ECU
• Wiring Harness

Other than the obvious tools you will need lots of baggies to put parts/bolts/etc. in and mark them.  Masking tape so you can label EVERYTHING you unplug.  Expect to do/need some custom exhaust work.  If I remember right a lot of folks here use hockey pucks for motor mounts.  Since the KA will already be out I'd consider a rebuild kit to at least redo all of the seals and gaskets.  Oh, and beer.  Lots of beer.  Not only can you drown your frustrations in it your friends will be more willing to come help if you have beer.

Sounds like I'm off to a good start on the beer part.  I've got a friend who drifts an S13 that could probably help. I'm sure he'll be pissed that I'm taking his stock of "reserve engines" from the junk yards.

Hockey pucks, eh? I guess that'd work well as a rubber bushing.
Now to get a hold of the salvage yard to see if they have what I need.

I got around to doing a compression test tonight and I'm surprised to find that compression looks good.
I think all of them read around th 170-180 mark. The manual recommends 171 PSI
I'm a bit concerned about the spark plugs though.

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Think these sparks could be an issue?

lol are any of those the correct plug for that poor CA?  Better take a good luck inside the dist cap to see condition of contacts and what rotor they decided to use!

Ya know, Red, I was thinking the same thing about the plugs. They're all DIFFERENT! Not one of them is the same F'n plug!
I'm debating how much work I'm going to actually put into getting this engine to run, because I plan on doing a KA swap as soon as I can get one sourced.

But fidgeting with this engine is making good mechanical troubleshooting practice.
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for your CA, just get a new set of the proper plugs - intake side only, don't really need to change the ones on the exhaust, and consider a new cap and rotor too. Maybe ex. mani gasket but you may run into a big pain playing with those bolts as they are commonly stripped. Rockauto has lots of choices usually some closeout specials too so should be able to get basics done for very little money and it may run fine after that.

It was warm enough to work in the garage today. A whole 24F degrees...

Anyway, I wasted more money at AutoZone today to pick up 2 sets of plugs.  My OCD wouldn't allow me to have non-matching plugs again.
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I got them all spaced exactly to .044, installed.

Changed oil and filter. I might have put a little more than 4 Qts in.  I may have to drain a little because I got the car running for a little bit, but I saw this....

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Oil spattered out of the exhaust.  I'm unsure if it's because I over filled oil a little or if there's a bigger issue like bad rings or cracked block.

I think this time, I'm seriously done trying to make this engine work.
If anyone has a KA for sale at a reasonable price, PM me.

I don't think with compression like you were having you have ring or cracked block issues - the compression test would have shown it. Maybe valve seals, but are you sure that's oil and not water mixed with unburnt fuel/nastiness? Usually a little overful won't do that.

I was thinking the same about having good compression. I wouldn't think that would be the issue.
Could be just water and soot blowing out.
So, if all that stuff is good, what might be other issues I should look into?

I was going to order the rotor and dist cap, but I don't want to waste money if the engine is getting swapped.
I didn't think it was going to take so much to get it going again.  Maybe I was overly optimistic that this CA would run OK.

how does it run with the new plugs vs the old ones?

Having had a c20e for a while, i can say that a new cap and rotor made a big difference on mine back in the day.

@Rednucleus, with the new plugs in, it managed to run longer. I was actually able to throttle it up a little. Sounded like it was about to die at 2k RPM. I didn't try to rev any higher than that.

I'm teetering on the decision of getting a cap n rotor and cables.  It's good a mechanical learning experience and I could have a 2nd car to drive while I'm working on getting the KA.

Also, even though I just put a new battery in it, the battery seems to drain stupid fast.  Just trying to turn it over a few times, I'll see voltage drop from 12 to 10. After that, I have to hook it up to another car to jump it.
Could there be something else electrical going on, or do you think it's just the cold and lack of running?

1. Check timing
2. Look at cap and rotor contacts (2 on rotor) - any corrosion replace them.
3. Sounds like you have something draining battery. Shouldn't be dead that quick.

On the battery drain issue, I have been detaching it and bringing it in the house when I'm done. Shouldn't be a cold sap.
Thanks for the advice again. I'll check it when it's a bit warmer. 
It's currently about 15 F outside and not much warmer in the garage. It was like, 45 degrees yesterday. Man, I hate the mid-west weather.

On the battery, don't worry. Just charge it if you can. Its been sitting on a shelf a long time and needs to be in a running car. Fire the car up and check voltage.

Also, by the time I finished writing this post, I got contacted by someone here in Indy who has a KA for me. I'm going to take a look here in an hour or so to check it out.
I might just have to say, fuck this CA. and start tearing it out tonight.

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you now own an s12, stop counting the money spent it will only hurt the mind lol.
its unfortunate that you had the oil comming out the exhaust, i did too. swapped in a ka i bought for 50 bucks and never had that problem lol

there is tons of info on this forum useful for ka swaps, i though itd be more complicated when i was done. just be patient. :)

Thanks for the confidence booster Pakii.  About the money spent, I have no worries yet. I know it's going to keep costing me. I actually thought I was off to a good start.

Granted, I probably could have found an 80's Mustang ready to go at the $1500 price point. And more available parts and aftermarket...  ;_;
BTW, my daily.
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I'm still getting shit from friends for not sticking with american muscle.

Anyway the S12 is different. Not many people have the S12 from what I've seen and not many even know what it is.
I like the custom and unique factor. I get to make it mine.

Anyway, I'm still searching on the bellhousing and ECU issues.  Advice pls.
Also, I don't know if the Salvage yard is willing to sell just the BellHousing. I think they're trying to get me to take the whole Trans.
If that's the case, I'll wait until I can find a good Manual for cheap.

Patience.

Another CA bites the dust! Parts to consider saving that other members occasionally ask for are: starter, alternator, dizzy, intake mani, exhaust shield & mani if not cracked, flywheel if teeth in good shape. Good luck with your swap. BTW take a good look at your steering when the motor is out, it's a great time to change it if needed and new racks are readily available for about $100

What's that hanging on that crane?

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KA!

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I'm a bit pissed off at the salvage yard I got this from. They CHOPPED so much stuff in terms of cables and hoses. Guess I cant go back and ask for the wiring harness...

Now I need to find the correct bolts to hook the engine up to the engine mount to get the tear down started.

I could use that ECU, I dropped you a PM, 8SixS12.

This is probably a dumb question, but I don't mind being shamed if it is: Will the alternator off of a CA work on a KA?  Logically, you would think they'd work the same.

Is there a way to change the Subject of this post?
It's pretty freaking misleading at this point. It is no longer an "84 S12 Hatch Restore".
It's more like a "84 S12 KA-T Drift Debauchery".

Recently, I've been trying to disassemble the intake mani so I can get it nice and clean as well as remove the extra emissions crap.
While doing some research, I found this article which really helps me understand the KA's intake mani.
http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=544846
Some of the info is wrong, but is later pointed out by another member, so it still helps.

I feel like a total nub because I don't have any Allen Wrenches which means I can't get the throttle body off.
Off to the hardware store!

edit the first post and youll be able to change the title

Thanks again Iggy. You da man.

It's been well over a month since I've gotten to a chance to update here.
Before I was just busy with work and helping friends with their cars but two weeks ago, tragedy befell myself and the Indianapolis drift community. The loss of life of my friend, Karim Rahmaan.

We were on our way from Indianapolis to Nashville for a drift event. A strap on the car's trailer came undone, so we'd pulled over on the highway to get it strapped down. While he was working on the strap, a drunk driver struck the trailer, killing him. I was in the truck when we were hit and got beaten up pretty badly. I'm ok, nothing broken on me. Just tons of bruises and soreness.

I've been a bit depressed and discouraged from working on my car, but I know that he'd be yelling at me to finish if he were here. He's the one who really inspired me to do a drift build.

Over the next few months, I hope to have more work posted in here.
Only need my starter and hoses to get the engine running. So close to getting it on the road.

Be safe out there. Keep sliding.

#TapNScrape

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My sympathies over your loss. Don't know why so many drunks have to hit trailers - it has happened many times here as well.  Definitely get your car finished to honor your friend, he wouldn't have it any other way. I'm sure he will be in the seat next to you pushing you to your limit!

Wow Man!  Sorry to here that although nothing we can say will ease the pain,  I for one will praying for you. On a similar note, a dumbass in a dump truck hit my trailer this morning only 2 miles away from uhaul. The guy came into my lane and pow!  Anyway, press on bro and finish the build for your boy like you said he'd want it that way.

You have my condolences brother.  Rest assure, you have a strong support network on this forum.

Thanks for your condolences.
This ride will be completed and thrashed hard.

On a brighter note, I was on my way home, in my neighborhood when I saw a kid hanging his head out the rear window of a passing car.
As they passed I heard him yell, "I love your AE86!"  I just replied with a "Thanks!"
Then I realized, he didn't say Mustang, like I was expecting.
I also realized this kid thought I had a Tureno. He must have seen the S12 in its tore down state.
I put my car into reverse and started yelling at them to wait up. I had to correct this kid. haha.

I think I was more surprised that a kid of about 14 knew what an 86 was.
Thank netflix and Initial D for culturing our young generation. haha

Surprised he didn't say, "I like your DeLorean."  Ahh, that movie was way before his time.