Planning a build-up 230-250hp

I'm planning on building a CA18ET with about a 230-250hp goal. Here is the platform I'm starting with.

SR T25
DET Rods
DET Crank Girdle
DET Crank
Starion FMIC
HKS BOV
Walbro 255 pump

This is just a plan I haven't got all the parts yet. My questions is

What pistons and rings should I use? DET ones or are the valve reliefs way too different?

Do I need to use the DET crank? With my stock one be okay for the goal?

What about fuel? Are there any injectors I can swap? Or should I just use a SAFC?

What would be a safe boost for this T25?

I know this is alot of questions but I figured I would get them all in one topic.

Thanks

Mike

Well, looks like you've got a decent parts list to make a ca18et take 250whp. The hard part will be to make that 230-250whp.

The DET pistons are the way to. Stock ca18et are lower compression, and don't have floating wrist pins. The higher DET ratio will give you better off boost performance.

SAFC and 370 cc injectors or larger would be a must. As will a serious head port/polish, new valvetrain and aftermarket turbo cam. 3" straight through exhaust, plus custom DP, high performance clutch, LSD ... all that is kind of "after motor" though.

Yea, if you are gonna make that much power with these cars, you NEED to beef up your drivetrain. especially the rear diff. Putting that much power to the ground on a stock diff... You're gonna scatter the gears. An LSD is in order. I would suggest to do research and find a LSD with beafy gears so you dont blow it up.

well lets see... centerforce has a nice upgrade for a clutch,
i would balance the rotating assembly
330 or 370cc will be more then enough but you will need a custom fuel rail, and adjustable fpr,a nd a safc os a must...when you get the safc a z32 maf thats wired in would be a good way to go as well...

now as far as the beefy r200 the power levels you speak off will be just fine for the r200, i have heard of r200's taking well over 500-600hp without prob,,, it was hard to keep traction but the diff can take with no prob

Thanks, I just conformed one the crank and girdle so I'm waiting on th rods and pistons. So there are no direct 370cc injectors? Will DET work? Also what about 240sx LSDs? Will that mate with the back nice, or would I have to swap guts from each rear-end housing?

Thanks agian.

I hope this puts out some serious fun when I'm done.

Mike

Yea, if you are gonna make that much power with these cars, you NEED to beef up your drivetrain. especially the rear diff. Putting that much power to the ground on a stock diff... You're gonna scatter the gears
Bart is right, the R200 is a strong bastard of a diff, if it breaks with only 250hp there was somthing wrong with it, it'll take way way more.

det injectors will work but you will need safc to run them

The DET injectors will work but they will need a bit of work to fir them. The stock fuel rail's outlets are a bit smaller than the inlets of the DET injectors. I think they can be bodged on though.

The DET injectors will work but they will need a bit of work to fir them. The stock fuel rail's outlets are a bit smaller than the inlets of the DET injectors. I think they can be bodged on though.

Do you think a little shaving on the rail would do the trick, or just work them in there?

I'd just make or buy a universal fuel rail ... the stocker is shit to begin with.

I'd just make or buy a universal fuel rail ... the stocker is shit to begin with.

What he said, I did see a pic of a DET fuel rail which had been cut down and welded up again so that it would fit the ET manifold. I think Im going to try this and if it all goes wrong just make up a new fuel rail.

a new rail should be pretty easy, but i'd think the stock fuel lines are going to be restrictive then! it never ends..

What he said, I did see a pic of a DET fuel rail which had been cut down and welded up again so that it would fit the ET manifold. I think Im going to try this and if it all goes wrong just make up a new fuel rail.

The fuelrail you speak of is made by berna and his friends.

The fuelrail you speak of is made by berna and his friends.

Do you have the picture of it?

Another question. This is for anybody who has had or messed with the CA18DET. My question is, would it be more fesable to just swap the DET in rather than keep/build the ET? It just seems that the ET is more restrictive in power gains compared to the DET (i.e. fuel, valvetrain, etc). With the power goal in mind which would you suggest. A moderate DET, or a Kick @$$ ET?

Thanks

Mike

Heh, what can you afford?

The ca18et is restrictive, hence why we can find so much power fairly easily.

The ca18det has a lot more potential, but it is also a lot newer tech. The ca18et can be tricked and fooled quite easily to ~200 hp. The ca18det takes a fair bit of $$$ to tune + a hefty investment just to get a used one to your door. There's ca18ets that have hit over the 300 whp mark with a DET bottom end.

I'm going to build a rail, possibly this weekend. I've got to take a look at the injectors anyway. Maybe I'll do the lines ... I dunno, I guess I'll see what I can get myself into.

I see, yeah you are right about the tech on the DET, it's a nightmare, most people go stand-alone for more power gains. Does anyone happen to know how a ET would react to a stand alone. Say SDS or something like that? I think that would solve a few problems, or put them all in one place.

If my S12 goes pop while the rest of the car is in good condition I might go for either a DET or an SR swap. (there are loads of DETs over here so it might be abit different price wise)
The DET would be alot easier to swap and alot of the stuff on my 12 now could be re-used with the DET. ie exhaust (with minor mods), filter, bigger fuel pump, SAFC2, boost controller even the turbo if you already have t25, t25g, t28 etc...

Our fuelrail
http://213.226.67.155/New/180zx/11/DSC00002.jpg

For more info http://213.226.67.155/projekt_180zx_drift_edition.htm

Im trying to make a 200+ (whp) engine for my S12 right now.

Would love to see power at the crank reach 245hp or so (dual the amout stock in sweden (122hp)).

The mods I have come to think of right now:

IC, thinking of building two Volvo 740 IC:s together.
CA18DET block and girdel, with ET crank, rods and pistons. (If they fit..)
Ported, polished ET head. (Mabe compression lowerd also).
New exhaust mainfold. (Who in sweden could make a top-mount mainfold for me?)
Mitsubishi TD04-15t Turbo.
Walbro 255lph fuelpump.
Adjustable FPR.
Nissan S13 370cc injectors mounted on custom fuelrail (Need to make one of those also..)
Nissan S13 standard clutch.
SMT5-6 piggyback computer. (To modify fuel-mixture and ignition)
Throttlebody from S13.
3" downpipe to fake cat and 2,5" system behind that.
Modify the coils to run all the time.
Stronger valvesprings (Anyone know of harder springs that fit straight off?)
Lighten the flywheel.

Any comments?, ideas?

well everything outside your internals looks up to par. Although the crank rods and pistons should be a focus piont. I've heard the ET rods and crank are weaker than the DETs. DET block I believe is virtually the same as the ET (could be wrong) Then to the pistons the DET pistons in a ET will up the compression (not sure how much) so there is a possibility of some power gain for useing the DET pistons instead of the ET. Although either set would do I think.

This is IMO

Mike

The big difference in the block is the girdel and the oilsprayers (to cool the pistons).

Right now im thinking about using my ET block equiped with the DET girdel, since the DET block would need a bit of work.

I havnt checked, but it would be cool If the oilsprayers could be fitted in the ET block... :)

does anybody carry forged internals for the ca18et?

does anybody carry forged internals for the ca18et?
Any forged internals you find for the CA18DET will also fit into the CA18ET. It's the exact same bottom end specs, except for some added material, bracing and oil squirters in the DET one.

i believe www.importperformanceparts.net has a set of forged rods for the CA18ET. I purchased the rods for the CA20E as my special project, but im pretty sure they have the ca18et ones. If not, im sure they could make you up a set and im sure they have one for the ca18det.

for the power levels that you're looking for the det internals should be sufficient. that would be far more economical than buying new forged parts. you'd want the rods, crank girdle and pistons. not sure if the det crank would fit... oil squirters would be nice too, but i'm not sure how they'd integrate into the et block or if the oil pump could handle them.

i thought the det internals wouldn't change the cr if used in the et?

can anyone confirm if the det pistons are really any better than the et pistons? the et's have the reliefs for 4 valves...

I think the pistons are pretty much the same design as both have the 4 valve reliefs. The rods on the DET are definetly beefier as we all know. Not sure if the pistons are stronger or not or as to whether or not they would change the compression ratio.

To give you an idea:
my car before I tore it apart... again... had det bottom end/flywheel/ clucth. ported/polished head= port matched intake/ex manifolds, brand new t-25 from garett, spearco fmic and 2.5 hard pipes, stealth bov, turbo back 2.5 maqndrel straight through with a magnaflow twin tip (not the hater BMW style one!!!) Custom Cold air/cone setup, my maf had been molested by the local tune shop to the tune of 5 hp, apexi safc, boost/ af gauge, boost at like 17 psi, dsm aftermarcket 255 lph fuel pump, clutch fan removed, and I cant remember what else off the top of my head. but it made a smiggy over 200 hp @ the wheels. I will say that it wasnt smart though cause I really abused the motor in that short time the car was running. If your serious, learn from my mistakes, buy a good aluminum rad and a elec fan with a themostatic controller, replace your fuel rail and fpr and injectors. Aside from tbhat you should be good to go, what ever happened to that magazine article with the 250bhp 200sx?

later

To give you an idea:
my car before I tore it apart... again... had det bottom end/flywheel/ clucth.

later

so the det block is a direct bolt up to the et head?

lets not forget that the et rods are completly wimpy next to the det rods the det rods are good for about 300-350whp while the et may get to 250whp

Floating wrist pins are a huge bonus too.

The DET has 8.5:1 compression which would mean better off boost performance for us.

17 psi out of a T25 is really pushing it. You'd end up with the equivalent of a solar flare going through your intercooler.

A few guys have that article kicking around. But basically he had a DET bottom end, T3 and cheap standalone management through a Peugot (I think?) ECU reprogrammed for his purposes.

He also blew up how many motors?

I think I have the article on my comp somewhere, Il put it on my webserver when I find it! :)

Its up! >> http://zecfusion.mine.nu/S12/

I also put the FSM for the 1984-1987 S12 online there. (Its in PDF format, you will need Adobe Acrobat Reader to be able to open the FSM. Adobe Acrobat Reader can be downloaded from http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html for free.)

Floating wrist pins are a huge bonus too.

The DET has 8.5:1 compression which would mean better off boost performance for us.

is this is from the pistons or the rods or the head/block? i was under the impression that the rods and pistons were the same, dimensionally as the et.

The pistons might be responsible for the difference in compression. I've never found out for sure. A lot if not all of it could very well be in the head.

I think someone at some point either proved or theorized that the later model ca18et's ended up with DET pistons, but I really am not sold on it.

we need to see the pistons side by side. Bart's got a ca18det now, and it will be torn down for a rebuild so I'm sure he can tell us.

Zector you are my hero. Thanks so much for hosting the FSM, everyone here needs it.

nope the head is the reason for the c/r the pistons are compltely flat like the ca18et ares. iust gutted my det apart and thats what i saw...

woah, so the mkII's have det pistons? that would be a pleasant surprise!

no the ca18et doesnt have the same pistons but the same design.. the vg30e have the same flat top design as well

just because the tops of the pistons are flat doesn't mean they're not the reason for the compression difference.

Where is the pin? How tall are the pistons?

everything is the same i have some pics to post up of the ca20e, ca18et, and ca18det rods/pistons... the volume of the det head valve area is the reason for the higher c/r

I think I have the article on my comp somewhere, Il put it on my webserver when I find it! :)

Its up! >> http://zecfusion.mine.nu/S12/

I also put the FSM for the 1984-1987 S12 online there. (Its in PDF format, you will need Adobe Acrobat Reader to be able to open the FSM. Adobe Acrobat Reader can be downloaded from http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html for free.)

Website not working....

what is an mkii? i have an 86 s12 ca18et. on the door it says 85 but title says 86.

also, if there the same size can we get low compression forged pistons for a ca18det and put it on our ca18et? if we can... 2 bars here i come... (after several mods ofcourse) :)

Our 1988 ca18et has the same part nr on the pistons and rods as my 1990 ca18det in my s13 and they looks exactly the same.

The only thing that was diffrent was the crank only 6 bolt insted off 8 in my ca18det.

I say its no problem for our ca18et to handle 300hp.

I am using my stock rods in my 350hp ca18det and it should handle more then 400hp i am using ARP 202-6003 bolts for my rods about 60% stonger than stock fits ca18et to.

And venolia pistons that weight a 1/4 of stock nr 10421 special made for me 0,5 oversize should work in ca18et to.

Website not working....

Its due to a powerfailure, the computer didnt start back up as it should have.

Its located at a friends house, and he´s been away for a a few weeks. Should be back this weekend, then my server (with the FSMs and stuff) will be back online. ( Its a 24/7 server, always online.. this is the first time its been offline for 4 years.. Im sure it was needed... better clean the dust out of the case while its down :P )

Our 1988 ca18et has the same part nr on the pistons and rods as my 1990 ca18det in my s13 and they looks exactly the same.

The only thing that was diffrent was the crank only 6 bolt insted off 8 in my ca18det.

I say its no problem for our ca18et to handle 300hp.

I am using my stock rods in my 350hp ca18det and it should handle more then 400hp i am using ARP 202-6003 bolts for my rods about 60% stonger than stock fits ca18et to.

And venolia pistons that weight a 1/4 of stock nr 10421 special made for me 0,5 oversize should work in ca18et to.

Whats the advantage with using APR bolts? are the standard bolts a source of problem when tuning?

Also what do you think venoila pistons and apr bolts would cost (not oversized) and where to get them?

According to http://www.venolia.com/imports.html#Datsun-Nissan
the pistons you specified is for a 300ZX ?

it seems that the most tuning is done with larger turbo, more fuel and only a support girdle for the crank at the most for our cars, but I was thinking that with a more agressive cam the toprange power of the CA18ET would be better... does anyone know where to find a fairly agressive cam?
(Will be used for the street.. so not a pure racing breed).

I have a euro cam now I guess, since its a Swedish car...

Also, what would be needed to modify if id want to be able to safeley rev my engine to 7000+ .. has anyone attempted these mods with our engines?

The pistons are the same to the vg30dett and the arp bolts for the rods are to L24 and vg30 to.
The pistons costed me 6600kr when i bought them should be cheaper now.
Arp bolts 700kr they are about 60% sronger than stock.
The weckest point on stock is the bolts.
If i were you i should get arp to the mainbearing and the top to.

/Berna

Our ca18et is no problem to 7000redline but it runs best to 6700rpm mayby beacuse of the t2/t25 turbo maby it can rev litle more whit an bigger turbo lesss restrictions.
The mor rpm the more boost it produsec until 6700rpm were its stays.

Sounds good :)

What needs to be modified to fit a CA18DET trottlebody to a CA18ET?

Do I need to widen the intake or something?

What needs to be modified to fit a CA18DET trottlebody to a CA18ET?

Do I need to widen the intake or something?

Nope nothing plug and play