ka24e swap.. diffuculty level?

I was wondering what the difficulty level on puttin a ka24e into an s12 was and what all i would need to switch or custom fab?

Not sure how hard it would be but putting a turbo on a stock KA engine is not a good idea. Was not ment for boost, maybe take 5-8 PSI. Oh it can be done but you would have to beef-up the internals quite a bit to get a decent amount of boost. I have a friend that was looking into it and thats pretty much what he was told.

Not sure how hard it would be but putting a turbo on a stock KA engine is not a good idea. Was not ment for boost, maybe take 5-8 PSI. Oh it can be done but you would have to beef-up the internals quite a bit to get a decent amount of boost. I have a friend that was looking into it and thats pretty much what he was told.

All depends how you do it i have a buddy with a 92 Civic SI turbo with nothing done to the internals. He runs 12 pounds of boost at the track and his car is a daily driver. Runs perfect.

205 HP on stock internals. :lick:

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/mcdonald/205whp_bitch_1.JPG

All depends how you do it i have a buddy with a 92 Civic SI turbo with nothing done to the internals. He runs 12 pounds of boost at the track and his car is a daily driver. Runs perfect.

205 HP on stock internals. :lick:

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/mcdonald/205whp_bitch_1.JPG

Different vehicle, different build....KA and B series are differernt, WAY DIFFERENT....

Installing a KA motor is pretty easy, I"m sure dropping a SOHC KA vs a DOHC is the same. You may have to cut down the driveshaft some if u use the KA trans. You may be able to use the CA trans, with the KA bellhousing, I didnt try that tho. here check out my page for some quick info, I still need to update some parts of it tho...

www.cardomain.com/id/sleepns12

You will need custom motor mounts aswell.

Turboing a KA is fine, if you browse you will find alot of people have done this swap, there is complete kits you can buy. 5-8 PSI will not hurt a thing.

Craig

Hey, whatsup Sleepn? Haven't seen you in awhile, I was hoping this thread might bring the club's resident KA24 swappin' expert off those Hawaiian beaches and back onto the forum.

Hey, whatsup Sleepn? Haven't seen you in awhile, I was hoping this thread might bring the club's resident KA24 swappin' expert off those Hawaiian beaches and back onto the forum.

LMAO... I only wish I were doing that...I been renovating my house (2 story house, just the upstairs, so I can rent it out) and its been taking a crap load of time out of me...

If u read my post in General, I think I blew my rear main seal, gonna find out this weekend tho...

As for custom motor mounts, I dont think so, I didnt need to make custom ones, I was able to use the ones off of the KA just fine...just unbolt the CA ones and install KA ones, its kind of a pain in the ass to do tho, u are gonna need a swivel head rachet to acheive this...

As for custom motor mounts, I dont think so, I didnt need to make custom ones, I was able to use the ones off of the KA just fine...just unbolt the CA ones and install KA ones, its kind of a pain in the ass to do tho, u are gonna need a swivel head rachet to acheive this...

Sorry my mistake yaa you can use the KA mounts, if you want to use the CA mounts you need custom brackets to achieve this.

Great website sleepns12! If I don't get the v6 car I've been looking at, I'm gonna do a KA swap, so that website will help out a lot!!!

KAs can be turboed easily, if they're done right.

I know about 4 of them running around near me.

I think the KATs reputation was completely fabricated by SR exporters. Either that or by Sr owners, to keep people from finding out they can go faster for cheaper.

I mean I know if I spent $4,000+ to get a motor to my door, I wouldn't want to know how better I could have spent my $$$.

Problem is, you have the Hond-uh crowd now running out and buying S13s up.

So pretty much anything you read about them, discredit.

IMHO the KA is a very stout motor, and perfect candidate for boost.

Even in NA trim they can be made to go quite nicely.

I think the KATs reputation was completely fabricated by SR exporters. Either that or by Sr owners, to keep people from finding out they can go faster for cheaper.

Preach on brotha! That's exactly what I think. I can't see spending thousands of dollars to get a wore out stock motor, even if it is an awesome motor. Right now KA's are a dime a dozen, all the more reason for swapping them in an S12! I think if these S13 guys put the money they spent on the swap into the KA, they'd have at least as much HP, and a LOT more torque.

Yup, there's one of the SON clubbers running around with a pretty high mileage turbo KA, nothing fancy on it at all, and I think he's running about 225 whp off 8 psi.

I've got some good build ups for turbo KAs if anyone wants to read em.

Yup, there's one of the SON clubbers running around with a pretty high mileage turbo KA, nothing fancy on it at all, and I think he's running about 225 whp off 8 psi.

I've got some good build ups for turbo KAs if anyone wants to read em.
Sure, I have a feeling it maybe a cheaper method...you know rather than the VQ45DE thing we were thinking at the last meet...it would be cool, but I would need to put the 12 point cage in first...

I'd like to see some KA buildups. That's what I'm planning on dropping in mine, maybe sooner than originally planned...

IF you want to get into good KA vs SR arguments go to the s13 forums. From my own experience the KA is a peice. The CA is far superior. They put KA's in trucks. As well the KA does not have a suffuicent quence chamber designed into the combustion dome. This motor does not acomidate hot pressurized exuast gas very well.

But, what i would suggest, if one to were build a KA turbo would to get a ka with low mileage. Im talking no more than 50k (miles). These motors have a habbit of eating up ring seal. And in a boosted situation this will quickly lead to detonation.

The main problem you are looking at is ring height. Because it is a NA motor by design the top ring is very high to the top (face) of the piston. (2.5mm) SO, when detonating/knocking/pinging which will happen you will very quickly blow out this ring. With the added boost, you very quckily start starving you're rods and bearings for unpressurized oil, by now pressurizeing the crankcase. Rod goes, motors done.

The sr's settup utilizes a 4.5mm deep top ring. As well because of the aluminum block and larger mass of the block, it will dissapate heat faster which leads to a significant reduction of knock and detonation.

I am very sure, that IF in fact the KA was a wonderfull turbo motor waiting to be exploited, nissan would have seen this and equiped sports models of their vehicles at some point with a KA-T version. For whatever reason they seem to have done this will almost every other family of motor.

john

OK, but what if you build up the KA? All the reasons you listed were factory type problems. So what if it's a truck motor? In Chevrolet land, truck motors are the thing to get because they're built to take a lot more stress!

I'm just sayin, for the money people put into the SR20DET and all the swapping work, you could build up the KA...

Truck Engine :roll:

that phrase alone has probably sold more SR20s than anything else.

I can't think of a single car company that puts decent motors in trucks. I mean it's not like anyone ever put a max wedge, 426 hemi, LS6 (that's a 454)
or even a VG30 into a truck.

Oh wait, when pushing around a heavy vehicle, you need power? *gasp*

Ignore S13 boards , unless you want to find out where you can pay $2000 to have your $4,000 motor installed.

Ignore anyone that tells you the SR is king. Ask them how they've solved their brutal cooling issues.

Second, go to web pages like these, instead of forums.

http://www.turbo240sx.ca

And BTW, I've seen this car pull Zo6 vettes on the track.

Sad fact is 80% of car "builders" out there are senseless. The amount of lying, cheating and stealing in the sake of ballooned HP numbers breaks my heart.

As for using a "low mile" project KA ... why waste your time? Build it from the ground up.

A used KA and tranny around me costs about $150. A decent HP kit, under $1000. If you actually take the time to source and have parts built rather than play "looky looky" through some ridiculously overpriced catalog you'd be surprised how much cheaper building a motor is than ordering one.

For a couple thousand dollars you can have a large displacement 9:1 turbo motor.

Actually the VG30's were in trucks. And max wedges and LS6's were made for horsepower not torque. Most truck motors were built out of more heavy duty stuff, not always the best for high revs or high power, but heavy duty none the less. Where do you think 4 bolt main 350's mostly come from? Besides Corvettes and a few Z28's, they came in trucks.

But I agree with you, with the money you save on a KA compared to an SR20, you can afford to go inside of it and build the crap out of it, and end up with a lot torquier motor. You can pretty much pick these motors up for free from some poor slob who swapped in a SR20...

heh, it was sarcasm.

The max wedge did come in trucks, which is where my 413 came from. There are also tons of marine and heavy equipment 426 Hemis kicking around.

The Ls6 is a torque motor, and is came in the 454SS.

As well, in Mopar land, truck small blocks all came with forged internals.

All I know is that dollar for dollar, on my local 240 forum, the ka24DET is cleaning house. There are pages and pages of questions about broken SR20s sidelining cars. A lot of guys spending thousands to try and get a good enough rad to keep the damn thing cool.

I'd always choose an iron block with a crank girdle over alloy.

Yes, the ring lands are definitely not for turbo application, but like I said, for under $1000 you can get an HP motorset with Ross pistons designed for turbo application.

$890 will get you what, an SR20DET JDM-tyte yo ignitor? *lol*

heh, it was sarcasm.

:bomb: Sorry, I'm an idiot... :kicknuts: :)

Not trying to sound like an a--hole or anything, but if the KA24DET's are cleaning house dollar for dollar, then why did you suggest that I stay away from them in another thread? Like I said, I'm an idiot and probably misunderstood something...

Personal preference. I like the KA24E. The DOHC was an after thought by Nissan.

I've also found the SOHC tends to respond better to mods, especially turbo. And it's a hell of a lot cheaper to build.

Hmmmmmm.... The wheels are turning... :)

Well, the DOHC looks a whole lot cooler! :beer:

I think the SOHC motors are probably easier to find too. I just wasn't sure on the aftermarket support as far as cams and stuff go. I wonder how much of a flow difference there is between the two. I know the E's got some pretty big valves and ports, but so does the DE. Another drawback to the E is hydraulic lifters... :???:

MAAAAN Not this shite again :bomb:

"Yo dude this engine totally roxors!!!"

"No man You're totally on crack!! this engine over here totally ROxors!!!"
"(reasons that engine A TOTALLY OWNZORSS!!!)"

"yea but... (reasons that engine B would shatter the earth if it was built right)"
"yo dude's but I know this dude out in like (japan, novascotia, california,mars, doesitmatterca) that has this engine with like A MILLION HP."
"Yea well I know this other dude....")

GODDAMNNIT WILL YOU PEOPLE STOP DOING THIS. These posts serve no purpose other than to start an argument.

CA, SR, KA, RB, 350, 454, 1.0L WHY THE **** DOES IT MATTER BUILD YOUR SHIT THE WAY YOU WANT IT!!!!!!

You could go on forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever about which engine is better only to go no where's and still be at that pivitol moment when you still thought (insert engine designation here) was a bag of wank.

My suggestion is.... Obviously lot's people of have done different things. Perhaps the person who is modifying the car should determine through OBJECTIVE EVALUATION (keywords) which engine will suit the car's intended purpose.

This is my first and last post in this thread. Let's please try to keep engine A vs. engine B out of the boards. They honestly end up doing nothing but causing an argument and niether party is able to completely overcome and tell the people which engine YOU SHOULD HAVE In your car.

As for me if I decide to get another engine it will probably be either rebuilding the ET or getting the CADET I have my reasons I don't feel like posting them right now. If you don't like that then buy my car and put THE BEST ENGINE EVER MADE THAT COMPLETELY OWNZORS THE BIG ONE111111!!!! in it

Oh and as far as the original question SleepnS12 has (obviously) done the swap and I would email\pm him for any detailed information you need.

:laugh:

Couldn't agree more...

But I don't know how we got on the topic anyway, this thread was supposed to be about how easy a ka24e swap would be, not if it better than any other motor... :laugh:

Oh well, guess some people just like to get their panties in a bundle...

No turbo on the Ka, if your'e getting the KA for cheap, dont over expend your'e budget. while it is still out of a car, replace the rod bearings, take off the head, have it skimed, USE A THIN METAL HEAD GASKET. Then replace the ignintion with an msd. MAKE A HEADER, and get a simple S-AFC for the fuel.

This will give you a very noticable boost in power and response after tunign with a full header to tip exaust. As well it will be INSANELY reliable, which is always nice. ANd it will be cheap.

Dont forget to get a valve job and hot tank while the head is off.

New oil pump. NEw water pump and NEW TIMING CHAIN TENSIONERS!!

This should be pretty fun in an S12.

John
First if you do not think the KA can handle boost, and you should not put a turbo on it then why the F*** would you suggest a S-AFC. With what you suggested there the stock computer will easily be able to handle things.

Now on to the bigger problem...this thread is supposed to be about the difficulty of installing a KA into an S12, so how about we stop wasting space on people's opinion as to why it would be better to swap in an SR20...simple answer is that some of us don't want to be like every ricer or driftricer wannabe who are the same people who have bought up all the 240's!! (By the way to all those dumbasses; thanks for the dirt cheap KA's)

Now for the difficulty of the swap, mnost of the problem areas have been outlined, but there are some other little things that are helpful. I am going by what I have seen, which is that you may need you stock power steering pump, or completely get rid of the power steering all together. The drive shaft DOES need to be modified, the CA tranny will bolt to the KA as long as it is A a manual, and B you use the KA bellhousing.

bringin' back an old thread :)

I have a CA20E auto-tragic s12, and the 5spd KA24DE engine I pulled from my s13 (I replaced it with a CA18DET). I also have a CA18ET manual tranny. Can someone please get on AIM with me and discuss what I need to find to do an auto-manual conversion, as well as a CA20 to KA24 swap... I tried searching, and I looked at SLEEPNS12 cardomain site, but I still have questions!!! haha

some of the stuff I'd like answered are:

can I swap the KA bellhousing to the CA18ET tranny and keep the stock CA20E driveshaft? Is it the same input shaft, length, etc...

I see that I can use the KA engine mounts, and if I can use the ET tranny, I would assume I can use the s12 tranny mount? Does the auto come with a different lower crossmember (where the tranny bolts onto)? The s13 automatic uses a different crossmember than the manual, but I have no clue what the s12 did. Are the auto/manual driveshafts different lengths?

And finally, what parts will I need for an auto-manual swap? I think I'll need:
KA bellhousing
CA18ET tranny
KA flywheel and clutch
??? throwout bearing?
KA pilot bushing
clutch master cylinder
clutch pedal
manual brake pedal
clutch lines
clutch slave cylinder
interior trim around the shifter
possibly manual driveshaft and lower crossmember
?anything else?

Thanks in advance :)

Sean

p.s. my AIM name is SOlsenA6 if you want to discuss... I'll be out of town for thanksgiving, but I'll be back Saturday.

Not sure on the crossmember issue, but if you've got an ET tranny, if it was in the US, most likely you've got a 71B tranny. The KA's came with 71C tranny's, but I'm pretty sure the bellhousings will swap anyway.

Sorry, I'm not much help here... :dontknow:

ok, new question. what about exhaust? will I have to get a custom made exhaust to go from the headers to the cat, or are they in the same place as the s13 stuff (ie. can I use a KA exhaust header and downpipe to attach to the stock s12 cat?)

Sean

OMG

Cooling problems on the SR. Bleeding the coolant pressure relief bleeder is a start. From there, a PWR or Fluidyne radiator with electric fans will take care of the rest. I dont understand how this settup would be \"thousands and thousands of dollars\".

Then the convo takes a turn for the worse.  This is when everybody starts playing johnny-bench-racer with \"My freind\" \"a guy i know\" \"this guy on this website\" and \"built motor\".

Everybody you know....F them. What do you have.

Ok, and Built Motor, I guess in perfect world, we can all Build a bullet proof motor for all of our cars.

Though this forum may seem small in comparison, you gotta remember whats going on, on other boards.  Like the Saturn guys. What about the Dodge intrepid guys?  Go to, [url]http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/[/a]

This website will want to make you blow you\'re brains out. But for the grace of god, You guys\' have classic somewhat original and INSANELY universal cars with which you can fit some of the worlds best designed factory motors inside of with a rediculous amount of ease.

So the point i want to make is just this. When you bring up \"my freind\" \"this guy i know\" and \"built motor\" You are now joining the ranks of all these RETARD enthusiasts with no hopes, of ever doing a burnout, no hopes of seeing speed over 135, no hopes of having a world of Japenese american, austrailian, and european parts for their car.

You know what should be done with a saturn?

IT should be melted down, and made into turbochargers for nissans.

John

at 90 mph on the interstate for 6 hours my sr20 stayed at a cool 175 degrees with a greddy radiator and a meziere water pump    i also have a greddy oil pan and earls oil cooler   but cooling is not an issue

MAAAAN Not this shite again  :bomb:

\\\"Yo dude this engine totally roxors!!!\\\"

\\\"No man You\'re totally on crack!! this engine over here totally ROxors!!!\\\"

\\\"(reasons that engine A TOTALLY OWNZORSS!!!)\\\"

\\\"yea but... (reasons that engine B would shatter the earth if it was built right)\\\"

\\\"yo dude\'s but I know this dude out in like (japan, novascotia, california,mars, doesitmatterca) that has this engine with like A MILLION HP.\\\"

\\\"Yea well I know this other dude....\\\")

Ok, I got something realted to get this back on track. Been a lond time lurker but this might be relevant to me. I have the possibility of scoring a fairly well taken care of ka24de (maybe d, not sure) engine (from an sr swap nonetheless) and without reading all this info would be a serious upgrade already. I was lucky enough to buy a ca18et with a blown turbo, lots of power there. Anyways on to the meat. Because of the blown turbo I looked for a replacement and was able to score one that came with a parts car. It\'s good to go and everything, manifold included. What I\'m wondering is can I just bolt it to the ka? Soeone said that the ka might not like the boost because of the shollow ring depth. But would it handle it if it was left stock? Maybe with just an intercooler? If not, I\'ll probably still get the ka but put it in the parts body. If I can turbo it, it\'ll replace the ca18e(t) lump.

Well, you\'ll need a custom manifold for the KA, and most of the manifolds I\'ve seen for the KA\'s are for a T3 flange, so it wouldn\'t directly bolt up to the little bitty T2.  I personally think the T2 is waaaaay too small for the KA anyway.  Get a manifold, grab a used T3 for dirt cheap, a used intercooler (Volvo, Starion, Probe, etc.), keep the boost to moderate levels, and it should be just fine if the bottom end is in good shape to start with.

KA\'s are definetly the budget beater Nissan engines right now with all the S13 SR20 swaps going on.  They\'re pretty stout NA too, do a little head work and put some bigger cams in, and you\'ll have some pretty decent power without the turbo...

No turbo on the Ka, if your\'e getting the KA for cheap, dont over expend your\'e budget. while it is still out of a car, replace the rod bearings, take off the head, have it skimed, USE A THIN METAL HEAD GASKET. Then replace the ignintion with an msd. MAKE A HEADER, and get a simple S-AFC for the fuel.

This will give you a very noticable boost in power and response after tunign with a full header to tip exaust. As well it will be INSANELY reliable, which is always nice. ANd it will be cheap.

Dont forget to get a valve job and hot tank while the head is off.

New oil pump. NEw water pump and NEW TIMING CHAIN TENSIONERS!!

This should be pretty fun in an S12.

John

No turbo on the Ka, if your\'e getting the KA for cheap, dont over expend your\'e budget. while it is still out of a car, replace the rod bearings, take off the head, have it skimed, USE A THIN METAL HEAD GASKET. Then replace the ignintion with an msd. MAKE A HEADER, and get a simple S-AFC for the fuel.
 
This will give you a very noticable boost in power and response after tunign with a full header to tip exaust. As well it will be INSANELY reliable, which is always nice. ANd it will be cheap.
 
Dont forget to get a valve job and hot tank while the head is off.
 
New oil pump. NEw water pump and NEW TIMING CHAIN TENSIONERS!!
 
This should be pretty fun in an S12.
 
John

i guess the reason for the AFC, sorry i typed S infront of it, would to corect the fuel because of higher compresion/better flow rates on the header and exaust, yeah, the stock comp will handle it, but this will alow the user to take full advantage of the modifications. The AFC is simply a knob to + or - fuel across the broad map, they are like $50 on ebay.

This swap is the same as an sr, basically, you need a set of s13 mounts and to slot the crossmember and the trans mount a little. As well, custom drivshaft will be in order.

Power steering... if you have a Ka24DE (dual cam) you\'re power steering will work fine, with the ka powersteering pump. If Ka24E (single cam), then you will need the power steering lines from a 89-90 S13, and swap them Becasue the power steering pump is on the oposite side (passanger side in US, driver in AUS/JAP)

questions?

John
[phone removed]

Ok, so to sum up. If I just want to do a basic transplant it\'s pretty muchg straight forward with the KA mounts amd KA bell housing if I want to keep the CA tranny. Plus the driveshaft will be an inch or two short. After that it should prety much drop straight in with only minor difficulties.
Now, I\'m not 100% sure what I\'m gonna do if I plan on doing engine mods because I do have a turbo lying around but it might get difficult / expensive with oil, an AFC and the manifold. I\'d stay with the T25 from the CA because it is small and any boost I see as a gain over stock air. Plus with the shallow rings and all around not-designed-for-turboness of the engine I\'d want to be careful not to go crazy in the boost department.
As for engine mods such as ports, exhaust, cams, timing, ignition. It could work but from the limited research I\'ve done into both (i.e. I haven\'t found any amazing deals) it might end up even costing more (read: i\'m poor). So what I\'ve concluded is that I\'ll just do the straight transplant and from there work at getting the turbo working.
T25 manifold, Ebay[/a], the auction will be closed soon so we\'ll be able to see what they go for.

What CA motor do you have?  If it\'s the stock turbo from a CA18ET, it\'s a T2...

Are you serious? so much for what I know. Could\'vesworn that it was a T25 and people were upgrading to the 28. But now that I think about it more, damn. Are the flanges that much different?

T2 series turbos T2,25,28 all have the same flange (as long as it came off a Nissan, DSM T25s use a different flange)

Problem is the T2 is even too small for the 1.8 it came on. Putting that on a 2.4 DOHC motor would be a bad idea.

T3s are cheap cheap cheap, and the manifolds for the KA are pretty cheap too.

I think the KA is a great candidate for the S12. It makes about 50% more power than the ca20e.

Turbo pistons are now available pretty much everywhere for the KA, with the ring lands in the right places.

i can sell you a used or refurbished .60ar sr20 t25. Or I could get you prettymuch anything on a t2 type flange for 600. including t2 t25 and t28, any spec. Ball bearing is extra.

and if you use the CA tailshaft, and internals and put a Ka belhousing on it, (you will need a internal shifter type ca trans for this) the OEM drivshaft will work.

John

Mr.200, I\'ve done some more research and it looks like you are quite right about the T2 being too small (I\'m not implying you were ever wrong). Also from what I\'ve read about other people turboing the KA. I\'ve done some looking at 240 forums, considering that\'s the car the engine comes from. And if the engine is in good shape (the one I\'m looking at has 82k and has been run on premium almost it\'s entire life) the car should hold up well till close to 200rwhp almost completely stock. I\'d probably invest in a AFC for the fuel just to be safe and if I found a pile of money somewhere I\'d probably get new injectors and pistons.
RPSport-John, do you think you or whomever you get them off would swap a T25 for a T2 that is supposed to be freshly rebuilt? I\'m not sure how you check if it is. Of course it wouldn\'t be an even trade, i\'d still have to pay something but it\'s an idea.

I have a SR20 .60 t25 that i would sell you but, unfortuately I could not take the stock et turbo on a trade.

Thanks
John

Don\'t worry about it. sideways and I might be working something out over PM but shipping a turbo from Canada to anywhere in the US ain\'t gonna be cheap.
EDIT: it\'s, \"sideways and I\", darnit, need to work on my grammer