Mistakes on the Club-S12 website

First of all, hey all :) I haven't been around for a looong time but hehe, I'm here again to torment you all ;) Starting with this long-ass post (sooorryyyy)
Anyway, I noticed that the new site layout has some big mistakes here and there...and thought I'd start a thread about those.

First of all, the FAQ:
1.No, no, no..Nissan didn't start the line of Silvia's in 1975..and not with the S10. The Silvia series started in 1964 with the Silvia CSP311, which was produced until 1968, and sold until 1974 (Wasn't really a great success in sales, but all in all a B-E-A-utiful car!), and THEN came the S10. That was, although, the first Silvia to have the S X X model code, but it still doesn't make it the first Silvia.

2. Actually, the S12 came with EIGHT (not six) different engine configurations (even more if we count the anti-pollution models separately, i.e. 4-plug vs. 8-plug CA18ET) ;
CA18S, CA18E, CA18ET, CA18DET, CA20E, FJ20E, FJ20ET and VG30E

3. "The sales numbers of the S12 series were three times that of the S13"
Is that really true in the US? Since everywhere else in the world, the S13 was THE SUCCESS of Nissan, being sold like soap compared to the S12. The RS13 model was even so popular that when it was discontinued in 1994 when the S14 came out, people protested (and yes, they actually had riots because of this :D :D) for this and wanted the RS13 back. Therefore the RS13 was taken back into production in 1996 and produced alongside the facelift model S14 until 1998 when they both were discontinued to make way to the ultimate Silvia, the S15.

The S12 variations and specs page:
1. CA18DET power (although I'm not sure about the S12's CA18DET power, have to re-check that..since it didn't have an intercooler) in the S13's was 175hp in Japan and 169hp in Europe. The 145hp rating was for the N/A CA18DE that was found for example in the S13's.
I'll have to re-check the FJ20ET power as well, but it was 192hp if memory serves..but for this, I'm not really sure. But the FJ20E was 145hp (at least in Europe)

2. The European models.
Silvia 1984-1988, FJ20E (NOT CA20E)!!
Silvia Turbo 1984-1988 CA18ET 135hp (Finland/Poland/some others)
Silvia Turbo ZX 1984-1988 CA18ET 135hp (United Kingdom)
Silvia Turbo 1984-1988 CA18ET 122hp (Germany/maybe some others)
180 ZX 1988 CA18ET 122hp (Sweden)

3. The Japanese models
I don't know the grades (like RS, RS-X, etc) for them, but Japan also got the CA18S, CA18E and CA18ET engines in the S12's.

4. The differentials.
FJ20ET (and most likely the CA18DET's too) got the R200 diff WITH the clutch type LSD!

Glossary:
OXYGEN SENSOR
"On the S12, CA18ET-equipped cars have the O2 sensor on the O2 housing"
-The 135hp CA18ET's never came equipped with an 02 sensor
-In Japan the 02 sensor was mounted on the turbine housing in the turbocharger.

Whoa..that's it for now, more to come when I come across them ;)

Well that at least sorts out some of the issues around here. 8)
And it is nice to see you back...you are/were missed. 8)

1. CA18DET power (although I'm not sure about the S12's CA18DET power, have to re-check that..since it didn't have an intercooler) in the S13's was 175hp in Japan and 169hp in Europe. The 145hp rating was for the N/A CA18DE that was found for example in the S13's.
I'll have to re-check the FJ20ET power as well, but it was 192hp if memory serves..but for this, I'm not really sure. But the FJ20E was 145hp (at least in Europe)
Yeah the CA18DET in the S12 was a good deal less powerfull due to the lack of the IC at 108KW (145hp) @ 6400RPM 225Nm @ 4000RPM.
I don't recall the FJ20ET power but i think the later ones were intercooled and made 205hp. I do recall seeing S12s with 'DOHC turbo intercooler' written in the black bit of the bonnet bulge rather than just 'DOHC turbo' or whatever they usually say.

I dont believe that there is/ was a CA28DET in an S12... But if there is, I'd like to see it. I mean a factory equippd DET. Secondly, I dont think the CA motors (DET is an exception) came with single coil/4 plug configuration, It would be a hassle to keep all sorts of ECUs around when they were building them and sort them out for thew different cars. Its kinda cheaper to make a bunch of cars that way. But then again I have been wrong about stuff in the past here... But I would like to see the proof that backs up what you're saying. For all we know you just wanna ick around with us cuz you're bored... But hey, I just wanna see this stuff cuz its interesting!

I've seen pictures of all those things you question nemesis. They do indeed exist and most of us older members are aware of these things.

There was single and twin spark versions of the CA20 in oz i think, late gazelles here had a silver top CA20E which i never really looked at but i seem to remember it only having 4 sparkies.
And yes the CA18DET originally came out in the S12 in non-ic form we didn't just make that up to annoy you :P
http://www.datrats.com.au/PS12-EN2.jpg
http://www.datrats.com.au/silvbay.JPG

Okay, okay. I believe you now... That stuff must be more rare than the FJs I think. And what is the CA18S?

And what is the CA18S?
The S means Carburated.

I don't know about this whole CA18S thing. I know for sure the CA20S was offered in early 1981-1982 Nissan vehicles in FWD form. The CA18S in a RWD platform in 1984 though? Really?

yip the s12 84' CA18S werent to bad, it had more balls than my ca18et

Yah to the best of my knowledge the DET was put in S12's in 1988 closer to the end of production. They ran out of ET motors, and thus put the DET in place. It was a situation sorta like 1986 where MKI, and MKII had parts swapped, except in 1988 parts were being swapped with the S13 instead. 8)

yip the s12 84' CA18S werent to bad, it had more balls than my ca18et
So was it a 1.8L carb N/A, ot turbo??? Becuase there is no T, but if it made more power than the ET, it could be interesting...8)

Yeah the CA18DET in the S12 was a good deal less powerfull due to the lack of the IC at 108KW (145hp) @ 6400RPM 225Nm @ 4000RPM.
I don't recall the FJ20ET power but i think the later ones were intercooled and made 205hp. I do recall seeing S12s with 'DOHC turbo intercooler' written in the black bit of the bonnet bulge rather than just 'DOHC turbo' or whatever they usually say.

Are you really saying that the non intercooled yet turbo S12 CA18DET made exactly the same power as the N/A S13 CA18DE non turbo?? Maybe it could be, but I still highly doubt that..

Here are a couple pics of an RS-X Intercooled FJ20ET US12.
http://www.autoala.net/filk/club-s12/rs-x

I dont believe that there is/ was a CA28DET in an S12... But if there is, I'd like to see it. I mean a factory equippd DET. Secondly, I dont think the CA motors (DET is an exception) came with single coil/4 plug configuration, It would be a hassle to keep all sorts of ECUs around when they were building them and sort them out for thew different cars. Its kinda cheaper to make a bunch of cars that way. But then again I have been wrong about stuff in the past here... But I would like to see the proof that backs up what you're saying. For all we know you just wanna ick around with us cuz you're bored... But hey, I just wanna see this stuff cuz its interesting!

I kinda know that Nissan really made both 1 coil / 4 plugs AND 2 coils / 8 plugs versions of the CA18ET...since I've owned both.
I have no idea WHY they made them both, since the 4-plugger was (apparently) only sold in very few countries, like UK, Finland, Poland, Russia, etc..meaning that those countries didn't yet have as tight pollution laws as others. The 8-plug setup in the CA18ET is purely an anti-pollution thing just to burn the fuel more efficiently and to make the catalyzer work better..and 4 of those plugs are shut off when the engine is under load.

Nissan really made lots of weird mixtures like this, so it's quite pointless to draw any conclusions like that there can't be this and that. ;)
For example, the S12's CA18ET has a flange at the back of the head where you'd install the distributor in an FWD application, but the FWD CA18ET's (like in the Bluebird, etc) don't have the spot for the S12's distributor next to the exhaust manifold...so the heads aren't 100% interchangeable. You can put the S12's head into a T12, but not vice versa :)

By the way, has anyone of you ever wondered about the eccentric lobe at the back end of the CA18ET camshaft?
That's for the carburettor model's mechanical fuel pump :D
I have NO idea why they had that in the ET camshaft as well, but it is there :)

EDIT:
A couple pics of a 4-plug CA18ET
http://www.autoala.net/filk/club-s12/misc/
Smaller distributor, no EGR stuff, doesn't even have holes for the remaining 4 plugs (could be drilled and tapped, though)

Thanks for the updates filk. Changes have been made.

Are you really saying that the non intercooled yet turbo S12 CA18DET made exactly the same power as the N/A S13 CA18DE non turbo?? Maybe it could be, but I still highly doubt that..
As far as i remember the S13 CA18DE is 135hp (100kw or so) and it's around 129hp in fwd form as opposed to 145hp (108kw) for the early S12 DET. That is merely what i have read and believed.

http://members.iinet.net/~sayers/biscuits/s122.jpg
There is the pic i was thinking of when i was thinking of CA18DETs, i couldn't find it when i was posting pics before.

The key difference you will see between the two is the torque output.

S12 CA18DET: 145hp, 159ftlbs
S13 CA18DE: 135hp, 120ftlbs

Only 10 horsepower difference, but at the same time there's almost 40 extra foot pounds of torque there.

As far as i remember the S13 CA18DE is 135hp (100kw or so) and it's around 129hp in fwd form as opposed to 145hp (108kw) for the early S12 DET. That is merely what i have read and believed.

http://members.iinet.net/~sayers/biscuits/s122.jpg
There is the pic i was thinking of when i was thinking of CA18DETs, i couldn't find it when i was posting pics before.

holy smokes, that's what it's for? there's no key for this so when i put my cam back in i was concerned that i'd throw it out of balance if i didn't have the lobe positioned correctly.

Wha?
The key difference you will see between the two is the torque output
Yes this is true, torque is what makes our cars go fast, power is just a number derived from torque and rpm. Thats why little tiny engines can make good power, they just have bugger all torque but they can rev their little heads off. Torque is your friend :) No use having 200hp if you need to rev to 7k to get it :)

Okay re the

ca18det s12's:

They were produced in Japan from mid 1986 to early 1988,(I think you could still get the ca18et in Japan for a certain period of this time, so the ca18det engine must have been an option at least early on till it took over completely from the ca18et); and are not an uncommon version from this time in Japan. Unfortunately the ECU and injection system on them is the NICS system which is (very!) shit compared to the later S13 control systems. The earlier versions of the R31 skyline RB20DET, (n.b. R31 not R32), also used a NICS system , (I guess this stands for Nissan Injection control system)and it is reknowned as being shit and down on power as compared to the later setup, (last run of the R31 RB20DET's got the later better system).

FJ20et's:

Some of these cars did come with a crappy little factory intercooler that sits on the passenger side under the front bumper. I have a picture of one of these cars and it has large factory stickers on the side proclaiming that it is 'RSX twin cam turbo charged intercooled' , and I have a picture of the front of the car with the intercooler shown and it is all definitely factory, (no one but the factory would fit such a crappy looking vent and intercooler) Probably only in later FJ20et cars, as in later FJ20et R30 Skylines.

Finally CSP311 first silvia.

I used to own a number of datsun fairlady 2000 roadsters, and the silvia csp311 is a fairlady roadster, (1600 version), with a coupe body mounted on the chassis instead of the roadster body,i.e. same car except for the outer shell,( definitely the prettiest and most classic of all the silvias by a long long stretch ). Very nice hand made body. I have driven in one of these, as a friend owned 2 about 15 years ago. Only 500 were ever made I think from memory. Most were sold in Japan only but some made it to Australia, to name one place. They all came in the one colour which was champagne.

CA18DET S12:
Haha, now I get it ;) I was thinking that no way, being non intercooled will not make a difference of 30hp to the engine..at least with the S13 IC being as SHITTY as it is. Well, when you mentioned the NICS, I went through my pictures and voilá, it actually says NICS on some wirings in the S12 with CA18DET ;)
Not THAT explains why it has so much less horsepower, thanks gerry!

FJ20ET:
As I stated previously, some of them really came with the IC, and I posted a couple pics of an S12 with the factory RS-X Intercooler stickers. I too have a couple pics of the original IC setup, etc...but well, it too was really SUCKY, but still better than nothing, right? ;)
And well...I don't think any other Nissan's factory IC setup was much (if any) better...they're all in the bumper in front of the left side front wheel (except for the Skyline GT-R's which had it in the middle of the front bumper, and the GTi-R Sunny/Pulsar which had it above the engine (maybe some others had it like this too..good or bad, don't know)

CSP311
The Silvia was made so that it based to the SP310 Fairlady 1500 chassis. And the body was completely designed by the German count Albert Goerz (Also the designer of Studebaker Starliner, BMW 507 convertible, Porsche 911)
Yea, it was completely hand build, which results in awesome quality in the car. Everything sits perfectly in it's place.
The CSP311 was actually very advanced in every way: It was the first Japanese production car fitted with disc brakes, first Nissan to have a negative 12v earth system (instead of the earlier 12v positive earth system), and also used an alternator instead of the old generator.
It was the first car with the new 1.6 litre R engine, which was an OHC engine with 3 main bearing crank and was fitted with 2 Hitachi SU 38mm carbs producing 96hp@6000rpm and 103ft-lb@4000rpm. Later models got the R engine with an alloy head and a 5 main bearing crank. The engine was later used in the Fairlady 1600 roadster, etc.
The Silvia also had other new things like a clutch plate with diaphragm springs instead of cushioning springs, etc etc.

A total of 554 CSP311 Silvia's were ever made, and it really wasn't selling too well..one reason for this was the high price. ("The price in Australia in 1966 was $4390 AUD, compared to the Fairlady's $2690 AUD")
Anyway, the CSP311 Silvia is one of the most beautiful cars Nissan ever made, and I'd really love to own one some day..IF they weren't SO DAMN EXPENSIVE these days. The fact that they're SO rare and SO wanted makes them more expensive than most new cars around. Example: there are (i think) only 2 of those around here in Europe (Northern Europe at least), and both cost about 5 times as much as an S14 with SR20DET if not more...
Well, to end this, I'm gonna post a couple pics of the beauty..and let you make your own conclusions ;)