I'm thinking about retiring my old home-made "ball & spring" MBC for a manufactured one.
I was thinking about the Hallman ES........
http://www.hallmanboostcontroller.com/images/ESnewlg.jpg
or the Joe P XZ
http://www.joepmbc.com/site_files/xz.jpg
or the TurboXS Standard Boost Controller........
http://www.turboxs.com/_images/Standard_Boost_Controller.jpg
Anyone tried any of these? Pros? Cons?
I would like to stay with a ball & spring type. I believe the Joe P is a dual ball design....and I think the Hallmans are....but not sure. The Turbo XS I have no idea...........any idea?
Any other suggestions on a MBC? Keep in mind I would like to stay under $100
Thanks for any info
Manual Boost Controller
This thread was saved without dates. "Around Mar 2005" is estimated from neighbouring threads.
Im going to get a dual stage Turbo XS boostcontroller with a switch inside the car to change between the boost settings. costs a bit more, but Its eather that or a Apexi boostcontroller (Since I might get a S-AFC2 later on)
Pro for Turbo XS is that its a large known manafacturer.
Con for Turbo XS is the price.
Oh....here are the prices and websites......
Hallman ES; $75 www.hallmanboostcontroller.com
Joe P XZ; $40 www.joepmbc.com
Turbo XS Standard controller; $69.95 www.turboxs.com
Well, the turbo XS one looks the coolest! :laugh: Seriously though, I have no idea if any is better than the others...
Whats wrong with your old one? i wouldnt think any of the ones shown above are any better or worse than each other.
Whats wrong with your old one? i wouldnt think any of the ones shown above are any better or worse than each other.
Just trying to move away from the "ghetto" design. It works, but not real consistant.
Anyone know if the Turbo XS one is a "ball and spring" type, or is it just a fancy bleeder?
The turbo XS one is garbage especially for that price. I've heard good things about the Joe P one though.
The turbo XS one is garbage especially for that price. I've heard good things about the Joe P one though.
Thanks.........thats good to know about the turbo xs one. I've always heard good things too about Joe P, and also the Hallman ES
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-BCS-002&Category_Code=BCS here is a good quality MBC for a little less.
hahaha guys, the ones listed are just either ball n' spring or needlevalve units, using slightly different parts from McMaster-Carr or some other valve parts vendor, and sold with some neoprene hose pieces and some zipties for three times what it cost the guy to make them.
Keith, stick with what you got. It's really just the same thing! If you don't want it ghetto, do what I did for a buddy and paint it a snazzy neon color or something. If you are having consistency issues, then you should try dissassembly and cleaning. Another common reason for MBC consistency issues, turbo spikes, and boost creep is both location of boost signal source and length of hoses. Otherwise a ball and spring valve is so simple it will always work if you maintain it and locate it on the wastegate properly. In fact it's foolproof. many quick and responsive cars use them.
BTW, building your own has the advantage of choice of parts (springs, valve bodies, adjustment methods such as knobs vs. twist bodies, etc.). If you don't like your particular setup, go with a different valve body that accepts a ball and spring configuration. Aain, McMaster-Carr has all that you need in their "Grainger" line-up. And I think Ace hardware carries plenty of stuffs to make these, too.
The TurboSmart/TurboXS comes in both Ball and Spring and simple needle valve. The one you show is the needle. Again, you're just paying for the name and some pretty annodized aluminum valve body. Also the pictured design uses valving that requires both a tiny screwdriver AND is ultra precise (read as tricky to work with).
It's perfectly clean inside.....I just can't get a lot of adjustment out of it even with shorter, longer, stiffer, or softer springs.
Does any one have a grocery list of whats needed to build your own?
The one I made consists of 4 parts..........
1 male threaded barbed fitting
1 female threaded barbed fitting with .40 hole drilled on side
1 spring
1 ball bearing
Adjustment is made by tightening the 2 barbed fittings together for more boost, loosen for less boost.
Take a picture of it. I want to see if you do or do not have a g-valve.
I doubt it's a g-valve......since all it is, is 2 barbed fittings screwed into each other with a spring and ball inside them.
I'll take and post a pic of it tonight.
Im going to get a dual stage Turbo XS boostcontroller with a switch inside the car to change between the boost settings. costs a bit more, but Its eather that or a Apexi boostcontroller (Since I might get a S-AFC2 later on)
Pro for Turbo XS is that its a large known manafacturer.
Con for Turbo XS is the price.
My buddy has his dual stage Boost controller in line with his left horn button (on a civic) so he can start out with low boost get traction, then tap the horn and it jumps the boost to 13 PSI. He has the horn un hooked as well so it doest actually sound.
I use an Acklands-grainger relief valve that is described in the "what the hell is" section as a MBC and it works great and not to hi-jack this thread but I found a part at work today that is a diff lock switch. Its about the size of a small toggle switch the turns an air line on and off. I'me going to plumb it in in paralell with my MBC so I can run a high boost and low boost setting with the flip of this switch. The thing costs about 10 bucks and has 1/4 inch fittings so it fits right inline, I will get some pics when I get home tonight.
if you're only looking for a few pounds more of boost you could try the actuator mod that someone else has done, of even easier put a washer(s) under the mounting bolts for the actuator (effectively lengthening it). this should also cut down on boost spiking. i'm going to do this as well as i get too much spiking with my ball and spring mbc.
I use an Acklands-grainger relief valve that is described in the "what the hell is" section as a MBC and it works great and not to hi-jack this thread but I found a part at work today that is a diff lock switch. Its about the size of a small toggle switch the turns an air line on and off. I'me going to plumb it in in paralell with my MBC so I can run a high boost and low boost setting with the flip of this switch. The thing costs about 10 bucks and has 1/4 inch fittings so it fits right inline, I will get some pics when I get home tonight.
Yup, that's how us Shelby Dodge guys do it for dual-stage boost... only we use electric-switched vac solenoids. Same thing basicaly.
The G-valve is the cheapest, simplest, and most reliable MBC setup one can have, so you chose wisely (as apparently you found out ;) )
Where do you get those electric solenoids? I searched high and low for an electrically operated air switch to no avail. Also, do you think electric or manual like the one I've got would be more suitable. BTW I have always found that homemade, really simple stuff seems to outlast flashy store-bought stuff most of the time (maybe its just stuff that I build, haha) so I would stick with simple.
All turbo Chryslers have electric vacuum solenoids, so do DSM's. They use them primarilly to control boost. They have three hose barbs... that flow like a "Y" (but the solenoid won't LOOK like a "Y"), where one is fixed and the other two are what it switches between.
Some are only two-barb, but the one I am describing with the three barbs is what you need. The two-barb ones just close off a line, it's the three-barb ones that redirect to alternate vac line paths.
I got mine out of a LeBaron, a bank of three of them, mounted to a convenient bracket that sat on the strut tower. I took it with the tap screw it came with, so imagine how easy it will be to mount.
The following pictures taken from:
http://www.gusmahon.org/html/boostcontrol.htm
(good ol' Gus still helps us from the grave)
Basic setup using g-valve:
http://www.gusmahon.org/images/graingervent.gif
Setup with G-valve for high boost at WOT and solenoid to switch back to stock (great for street racing and drag):
http://www.gusmahon.org/images/ultibleed.gif
Same setup as above but using manual switch, great for road racing:
http://www.gusmahon.org/images/adj-low.gif
The "g-valve" (Grainger #48935K25 from http://www.mcmaster.com ) as it comes stock:
http://www.gusmahon.org/images/1.jpeg
Swap the ball to the other end, and you have your reliable manual boost controller:
http://www.gusmahon.org/images/Abarb.jpeg
http://www.dawesdevices.com/hybrid.JPG
Use some small copper tubing in either end for hose barbs, or a thread-on one like shown. Either works.
Sweet.........I think I'll be ordering one of those 48935K25 G valves. For less than $8 you can't go wrong. Is the hole in the knurled adjustment nut at the top of the valve threaded for a barbed fitting?
Also....other than their website where can you buy these?
Thanks for all the great info!!
I bought mine from Acklands-Grainger (the parts store) for like 7 bucks, and no the hole in the top is not threaded so you will have to attach a barbed fitting yourself. I used a small brass nipple out of a air line fitting (1/4 inch) for mine and used 2-part epoxy to attach it. Make sure you rough up both surfaces before glueing them together, trust me on this, vroooom, then pssssssssst, what the hell?
I went out today and bought parts to fab up my new MBC. I used the idea from here.... http://www.geocities.com/chmwatson/FAQs/mbc.html
I paid under $8 for parts, and $5 for the tap I needed to tap the coupling from 1/8 to 3/8 for the adjusting bolt. I still need to take it apart and put teflon tape on all the threads then it will be ready for testing!!
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/675000-675999/675796_17_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/675000-675999/675796_18_full.jpg
What do you think??
Don't forget to drill a small hole in it somewhere on the wastegate side.
Don't forget to drill a small hole in it somewhere on the wastegate side.
Taken care of......thanks for the tip though.
I thought some of you folks running mbc would find this interesting. This is that air valve I got from work
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_img_a/686759_10_full.jpg
and this is my MBC
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_img_a/686759_12_full.jpg
and this is how I put it together
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_img_a/686759_13_full.jpg
I have the low setting at 5psi and the high at 13psi and it changes very quickly either way and its got a bleeder hole built in but its a little hard to see. the hole is right behind the chrome collar in the first picture. These go for about 10 bucks where I work and could be mailed if anyone wants one. Its so much fun to be haulin ass down the road and come to a hill just to flip that switch and feel it get this kick in the ass and take right off.
Well......got it all dialed in today, and man this set-up is very consistant.....no boost creep, and boost stays put and doesn't drop off like with the old one. Alot more adjustment, and easier to adjust too.
Only thing was I had to put in a stiffer spring, the one I had first put in was too light and would only handle about 4 psi before the ball bearing pushed it up.
That switch you got rigged up ugly old nissan......is that mounted inside the car? I don't know what the price difference is, but wouldn't it be easier and more effective to hook up a solinoid, instead of what you got? Not to mention less and smaller holes in the fire wall.
Yeah, the switch sits on my dash inside the car. I havn't priced those solenoids but I would imagine they are more than 10 bucks. Actually after all the parts needed like fuel line, clamps and fittings it was more like 20 bucks but even then thats really cheap. And for some strange reason when its set to high the bleeder hisses a little bit but it got rid of my boost spike, go figure.
I thought some of you folks running mbc would find this interesting. This is that air valve I got from work
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_img_a/686759_10_full.jpg
and this is my MBC
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_img_a/686759_12_full.jpg
and this is how I put it together
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_img_a/686759_13_full.jpg
I have the low setting at 5psi and the high at 13psi and it changes very quickly either way and its got a bleeder hole built in but its a little hard to see. the hole is right behind the chrome collar in the first picture. These go for about 10 bucks where I work and could be mailed if anyone wants one. Its so much fun to be haulin ass down the road and come to a hill just to flip that switch and feel it get this kick in the ass and take right off.
You're just using a physical vac line switch, the solenoid does the same thing but by wire. Nice job there, g-valve rocks.
Anyone got any info on where to get one of those solenoids new? Is there one that will work thats not from Crysler/ DSM? Are they used in non automotive applications?
Anyone got any info on where to get one of those solenoids new? Is there one that will work thats not from Crysler/ DSM? Are they used in non automotive applications?
Your answers in the same order you asked them:
Yes,
Probably,
No not this kind of solenoid.
Just find a turbo chrysler. It's not that hard.
And while you are at it, steal the 2-bar MAP sensor from it, and use it for your S-AFC project (you ARE going to go AFC aren't you? Even I have one now and will install soon)
Your answers in the same order you asked them:
Yes,
Probably,
No not this kind of solenoid.
Just find a turbo chrysler. It's not that hard.
And while you are at it, steal the 2-bar MAP sensor from it, and use it for your S-AFC project (you ARE going to go AFC aren't you? Even I have one now and will install soon)
oh he will he told me that if i got it to work in my car then he would do the same ....right keith
oh he will he told me that if i got it to work in my car then he would do the same ....right keith
Uhhhh, yeah, if you buying I'm up for anything :rofl:
But yeah.....someday. I'm actually trying to be patient and holding out for an intercooler kit and turbo header that "someone" is suppose to be working on....LOL
Uhhhh, yeah, if you buying I'm up for anything :rofl:
But yeah.....someday. I'm actually trying to be patient and holding out for an intercooler kit and turbo header that "someone" is suppose to be working on....LOL
LOL he has you on that one Bart. ;)