block off

has anyone blocked off or eliminated all emissions from there motor and if so do you have a picture?

I have on my VG. It's not difficult. If you have an AIV system, just remove it and plug the vacuum lines and the exhaust port. The EGR system is the only thing you'll need to make a blockoff plate for. Same thing though, just remove it and plug the vacuum lines. Then blockoff the hole in the manifold where the EGR used to be. I did not remove any of the idle equipment.

What's the AIV?

AIV is Air Injection Valve. It just injects fresh air into the exhaust stream to make the exhaust cleaner. Kinda stupid if you ask me. The motor still puts out the same amount of emissions, the AIV just helps mask them.

AIV is Air Injection Valve. It just injects fresh air into the exhaust stream to make the exhaust cleaner. Kinda stupid if you ask me. The motor still puts out the same amount of emissions, the AIV just helps mask them.
Plus I believe that is good metered air that your engine isn't injecting...stupid emissions

This wouldn't be the thing on the rear of the intake that has a tube going up into the breather is it? I've been wondering what exactly that does and I can't ever get a straight answer.

I wouldn't get rid of the EGR system, it will cause spark knock. The EGR puts inert gases into the cylinders, which brings the cylinder temps down. Without it, they get too hot and cause pre-ignition. To compensate, people would advance timing, which wastes gas and offers no performance gains under this condition. Also, EGR is only active under part throttle, so it loses no performance with EGR active.

I know of no downside to the engine life or performance to remove the air injection valve, it only feeds oxygen to help the cat do it's job.

OK, so you're saying that putting exhaust gas back into the combustion chamber is helping??? Hmmmm...

Plus it's super easy for these EGR's and intake ports to get totally plugged up and then it's not functioning anyway. My car had a new EGR valve on it, but when I pulled the motor down and took apart the intake, the place where the EGR injects the gas into was totally plugged up. And I'm guessing that most other 20 year old cars will have the same problems.

the point of blocking off or eliminating things on the motor is to keep only what is esential to running the motor. everything else is just something waiting to go worng. plus it saves weight

Without it, they get too hot and cause pre-ignition. To compensate, people would advance timing, which wastes gas and offers no performance gains under this condition. Also, EGR is only active under part throttle, so it loses no performance with EGR active.

Ok, first off, if you advance your timing to compensate for preignition (detonation) you deserve to blow your motor.

Making power and wasting gas go hand in hand. And advancing the timing is great for power, the problem is that it exacerbates pre-ignition and runs hotter. You retard the timing to run cooler.

No, EGR does nothing to cool the cylinders at all.

And yes, EGR systems crap out very easily, and can cause heaps of running issues.

If the old site ever gets backed up, or access comes back, I'll dig up my emissions removal how-to

My car (when running, and no, the emissions stuff had nothing to do with it :finger: ) is down to only very few vacuum lines and wow, there's a lot more space without all that crap.

Plus the car ran heaps better without a lot of it.

Ok, first off, if you advance your timing to compensate for preignition (detonation) you deserve to blow your motor.

Making power and wasting gas go hand in hand. And advancing the timing is great for power, the problem is that it exacerbates pre-ignition and runs hotter. You retard the timing to run cooler.

No, EGR does nothing to cool the cylinders at all.

And yes, EGR systems crap out very easily, and can cause heaps of running issues.

If the old site ever gets backed up, or access comes back, I'll dig up my emissions removal how-to

My car (when running, and no, the emissions stuff had nothing to do with it :finger: ) is down to only very few vacuum lines and wow, there's a lot more space without all that crap.

Plus the car ran heaps better without a lot of it.
I agree, most of the emissions crap that's in on our cars is most likely plugged, so removing it will most likely make it run much better...

Ok, first off, if you advance your timing to compensate for preignition (detonation) you deserve to blow your motor.

Making power and wasting gas go hand in hand. And advancing the timing is great for power, the problem is that it exacerbates pre-ignition and runs hotter. You retard the timing to run cooler.

No, EGR does nothing to cool the cylinders at all.

And yes, EGR systems crap out very easily, and can cause heaps of running issues.

If the old site ever gets backed up, or access comes back, I'll dig up my emissions removal how-to

My car (when running, and no, the emissions stuff had nothing to do with it :finger: ) is down to only very few vacuum lines and wow, there's a lot more space without all that crap.

Plus the car ran heaps better without a lot of it.

Yes, EGR makes the combustion chamber cooler. The ONLY purpose of EGR is to reduce NoX emissions, which occur when the temperatures increase. I know that it doesn't make sense that exhaust gas cools combustion, but remember; it is inert gas and does not burn with the rest of the gases. Although it is hot, during the combustion process the rest of the gases get a lot hotter while they are burning, and the recirculated gases do not get any hotter, so they cool the system down.

EGR systems do not crap out very easily, my car has over 300,000 miles and it works fine and has never been replaced. It is just a simple vacuum valve, it faces less heat than the O2 or the catalytic converter, and, unless you are running too rich or burning something that you shouldn't be, I really won't plug up. Plus, if having a plugged EGR causes running problems, why would removing it altogether not? Both cases the EGR isn't active, shouldn't peformance be affected in the same way?

I do apologize for saying advance the timing, you are supposed to retard it to prevent spark knock. However, with an EGR system, you can run the timing more advance, which can help performance.

Also, it's true that if you're making more power you're probably wasting more gas, but just because you're wasting more gas doesn't mean you're making more power.

Trust me, I would love to remove all of the emission equipment on my car, for looks, weight, and simplicity, but the truth is, if a system is designed to run with a certain piece of equipment, it will run best with that piece installed.

I've had to replace tons of EGR systems ... tons.

There isn't a Chrysler product out there that's still running the factory piece.

The problem with EGRs dying is how they die. If it dies and is stuck shut, no problem. Would act the same as removing it altogether.

If it dies stuck open, that's where the issues creep up.

If your car is running well, by all means, leave the emissions stuff alone.

If like me your car was running like crap, and you're out of ideas ...

I removed everything, the charcoal canister, EGR ...

And the car ran a million times better.

I don't really see how the EGR can cool the combustion chamber. I know what you're saying, but whatever the status of the gas, you're sticking 500ºf exhaust back into the motor. Yes, it is below the temperature of combustion, but you'd have to introduce a hell of a lot to actually transfer a notable amount of heat.

It would be like trying to sweat out a forest fire.

It doesn't burn, so it takes up space. Any space going to anything other than fuel and air isn't helping performance.

EGR might have its place on a commuter, it has no place on a performance motor.

I can without a shadow of a doubt tell you that the air pump, EGR, charcoal canister that came off my Charger will never ever go back on. It was all that crap that neutered the motor in the first place.

Simplicity is best, especially in performance. A motor is a pump. It is designed to get air in and air out.

The more complicated you try and make the motor, the more power you will lose.

Trust me, it makes it cooler. NoX emissions ocurr when the combustion chamber is hot, and an EGR systems only purpose is to get rid of NoX. You do the math. Yes, EGR takes up combustion chamber space, but the computer expects it to. The air entering the combustion chamber is metered, and the computer expects to see a certain amount of EGR at different RPMs and load. The computer compensates for it. Taking EGR out and replacing it with air will cause it to run lean. If you reprogrammed the computer, or set it up to add more fuel along with more air, yes you would see performance gains. Under WOT EGR isn't active anyway though, so you wouldn't notice any difference. The only time EGR works is during part-throttle cruising. I know that it isn't good for a race car, but most of the people here drive their S12's daily. Poor gas milage at cruise and engine pinging is something I don't want to deal with.

You are right, if it gets stuck open, it will cause performance loss. However, I was just telling love2drift that if there is nothing wrong with his EGR, don't remove it.

Nox is formed over 2000 Degrees, I think that 500 degree from the EGR would be cooler, plus, the inert gas that is MEtered into the combustion chamber is only allowed to go there under load and doesn't effect Idle or WOT. The enert gas displaces some of that to make the combustion chamber cooler. You have to remember that most newer cars are forced to run as lean as possible, pretty much starting with the late 70's.

Well, I'm gonna have to say that I agree with Mr. 200, Alex, and love2drift on this one. The less junk that your motor has on it the less stuff there is to go wrong. EGR was a crutch used by car companies in the 70's as well as smog pumps. Instead of finding out why they made the emissions they did, they just piled up crap on em to try and make them burn clean out the tailpipe. Same with smog pumps. Go look at a brand new car and point out the smog pump and the EGR. Most new cars don't have em. That's gotta tell you something.

Ken and Mr. 200 are both right. Ken is right that it does actually decrease combustion chamber temps. Mr. 200 is right that by this time, there are a lot of failed EGR systems out there. As for whether an engine will run best with it's emissions equipment still on is objective. The car will run no different with the EGR removed. That's a fact. I've removed the EGR off both my S12 and Z32 TT and I did not notice a bit of difference. Nor did I notice a difference in the EGT readings on my Z32. If you want to keep the EGR system, that's fine. It certainly isn't hurting anything. It doesn't make a performance difference either way. I removed mine to get rid of the vacuum lines and excess space it takes up. I like a simpler engine bay. I say to each their own.