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ok, i know all the basics for each engine, what is required for the swap, and stuff like that... the real question is, which is better? which is more durable? what kind of aftermarket can u get for each engine? how far can each be pushed before it breaks? i ask this because im having problems finding a ka24de around here, so i was considering a ca18det, im just trying to get a good pros and cons list of each. let the battle begin!
well im finishing off my CA18det at the moment on my 84 model and id have to say the conversion is pretty easy, everything basically bolts up and the wiring isnt too difficult. Can use either engine mounts i think. I only had a little bit of a problem with my ca18det gearbox which was too long and the tailshaft had to be shortened. but with you being in america im no sure if u\'ll have a problem with a japanese RHD front cut of a ca18det unless they came out in an american delivered car? i dunno what power a ka24de will produce but a ca18det is about a 135kw motor and in the end im aiming for about 180kw at the rears which should be reliable, i reckon thats pretty good for a 1.8 litre!! as for aftermarket parts i havent had any troubles so far but they are getting older and less popular and none of my parts have been specifically designed for my engine but they fit, or at least i make them fit! In the end if u find a ca18det u might end up having to rebuild it anyway cause i will be old and it will guarantee that u can push it as hard as u want
OK, here\'s my take on it. Stock vs. stock, I would take the KA. That\'s considering the stock tiny T25 turbo, sidemount intercooler and everything on the CA. They only made like 175 hp I believe, the KA is only about 140-145 (I think), but it\'s a lot more torquey. The CA\'s are more like Hondas in that they really lack in the low-end department, but make up for it in the top end. I would think that if you raced two identical cars other than the motor, they would be just about even.
Secondly, you can go to any parts store across America and get pretty much anything you need for a KA24DE. They came in Altimas, 240\'s, trucks, etc. We never got the CA18DET here, so parts are somewhat harder to find. Even though you can use some parts off of the CA18DE (out of the Pulsars), there\'s some things you\'re gonna have to order from Japan (and wait for a long time).
Thirdly, there\'s the fact that most JDM CA\'s have been pre-raped for ya. I think about 80% of people I\'ve seen that have done CA18DET swaps in their S13\'s have had to rebuild them within a year or two. Now, I\'m not saying the same won\'t go for a KA, since SR swappers tend to rag them out before swapping, but it\'s easier to find a good condition KA than a CA IMO.
Lastly, KA\'s overall have much more potential for making big power. There\'s several that are making 400hp on the stock bottom end, although I would recommend a set of forged pistons. Pistons and rods will get you in the crazy high power levels (I\'m talking 650 whp).
I love KA\'s. Big torque, ability to spool up large turbos, and rock-solid bottom ends. The CA18DET is a good motor too, I just prefer torque to high-revving turbo-laggy power...
Is one engine particularly heavier than the other? To the point that it would skew the weight balance of the car?
Here are the facts. Both engines in standard form the CA18DET\'s have more power and make more torque than the KA24DE\'s.
Basic mods like exhaust, air filter, intercooler and pipes. the CA18DET will reap much better rewards.
Ultimately in the long run the KA24 can stomp out the Little CA18 in the power stakes but it will cost a lot more money to do.
I guess it come down to how fast you want your car and how much money you are prepared to spend.
250whp is easily achievable out of a internally standard CA18DET and fairly cheap with the right bolt on mods. With that power in an S12 the car would be a solid mid 12 second car @ around 108mph.
I personally did and would again go for an FJ20ET, but each to there own.
Only cheaper if the internals don\'t need to be rebuilt, which you\'re always taking a chance with JDM motors, IMO...
Here are the facts. Both engines in standard form the CA18DET\'s have more power and make more torque than the KA24DE\'s.
Basic mods like exhaust, air filter, intercooler and pipes. the CA18DET will reap much better rewards.
Ultimately in the long run the KA24 can stomp out the Little CA18 in the power stakes but it will cost a lot more money to do.
I guess it come down to how fast you want your car and how much money you are prepared to spend.
250whp is easily achievable out of a internally standard CA18DET and fairly cheap with the right bolt on mods. With that power in an S12 the car would be a solid mid 12 second car @ around 108mph.
I personally did and would again go for an FJ20ET, but each to there own.
Fantasy, if there were more FJ\'s available here, you better believe you\'d see a whole lot more fast Nissans in the US!!! Unfortunately, FJ\'s are extremely few and far between here, and parts are almost impossible to find. KA\'s are a dime a dozen, and you can go to any parts house in the country and pick up parts for it.
I love FJ\'s, and would love to have one, but the fact is, they\'re just not practical in the US. Same reason I\'m not big on SR20\'s. I wanna be able to go to the parts house and get what I need instead of waiting 3-4 weeks for parts from Japan.
Hey guys I wasn't putting crap on KA24's.
If I had to choose between a CA18DET and KA24DE-T, I would choose the KA24.
That's just me though. And I always want the most power I can get.
But some people are happy with modest power.
It is cheaper and easier to put a CA18DET in a S12 than a KA24DE-T.
The CA18DET is almost a straight engine swap. The KA24DE needs a fair amount of fabrication to get the engine in and then you still have to spend more on turboing it.
Bang for buck you can't beat a CA18DET conversion on a CA20 S12.
If you are one of the people that wants more bang (like me) spend more bucks and Turbo a KA24DE.
Fantasy, if there were more FJ\'s available here, you better believe you\'d see a whole lot more fast Nissans in the US!!! Unfortunately, FJ\'s are extremely few and far between here, and parts are almost impossible to find. KA\'s are a dime a dozen, and you can go to any parts house in the country and pick up parts for it.
I love FJ\'s, and would love to have one, but the fact is, they\'re just not practical in the US. Same reason I\'m not big on SR20\'s. I wanna be able to go to the parts house and get what I need instead of waiting 3-4 weeks for parts from Japan.
Fact is these days virtually all of the CA\'s will need a rebuild by now. They\'re getting old & cranky. As has been noted the KA is a dime a dozen over there & can be turboed later if desired. If you\'ve got a bit of money to spend on a rebuild then find an FJ20ET as they could do with a freshen up, but will blast most other 4\'s (& plenty of 6\'s & 8\'s) out of the water. Basically how much money do you have to spend on the engine, brakes & suspension, because once you have more power you\'ve got to be able to control & stop it.
i rekon the ca18det cause thats what i did, bit that said, i wouldnt mind building a big bore KA24 on quads and lotsa work, or even a turbo, but i can get the same power from my CA18DET if i spent the money on it, rather than a built KA.
250rwhp is easy with a CA18DET and std internals, and makes for a quick little street car, 12sec is about right me thinks, and thats what i am aiming for, a S12 that goes 12sec Smiley
ca all the way
Fantasy, what do you do for parts like distributor cap, rotor, gaskets, plug wires, and stuff like that? That\'s the type of thing that I always worry about trying to find here in the US. That, and the fact that I\'ve only ever seen 2 or 3 FJ\'s for sale in the US, and JohnnyFive has one of them... :mrgreen:
Fantasy, what do you do for parts like distributor cap, rotor, gaskets, plug wires, and stuff like that? That\'s the type of thing that I always worry about trying to find here in the US. That, and the fact that I\'ve only ever seen 2 or 3 FJ\'s for sale in the US, and JohnnyFive has one of them... :mrgreen:
The problem is that we can\'t get any parts from Nissan. Nissan will only be able to supply parts to models sold in that given country. Hell I can\'t even get parts for a VG S12 here if I wanted.
As for what I would choose in the little debacle...that is easy the KA. wiring is identically as hard as the CA18DET...only difference is whether you want to swap bellhousings or trannies...and you have the tranny swap option if you want with the CA18DET...
Another thing top keep in mind is that the difference in price between the KA and the CADET is that the money you save on the KA is that much more you can put into rebuilding it when you want.
So Nissan actually still makes parts for the FJ? That\'s what I was wondering, since the motor hasn\'t been made since, what, \'86? If I wasn\'t knee-deep into my KA-T build right now, I would seriously consider an FJ, but the fact is, it\'s still cheaper and easier for people in the US to build/buy a KA.
Go CA Go CA Go . relatively easy swap Relatively easy to get parts. Things i broke already. Headgasket, Motor mount, Radiator, among a ton of little parts here and there and I have never had to order parts from Japan, Yet. Awesome little motor too. I have already drove 10,000 miles and she still keeps pulling. The best part is when a sr powered 240 owner asks what the hell I got in here. :boobs: I don\'t know about the Ka besides ithat it came in everything that nissan made even the hardbody truck. Do you really want a truck motor or a baby skyline motor. It really is up to you and your budget and how you want to drive the car. Daily driver I would go with the KA because if it ever breaks on a trip, anyone who has dealt with a nissan can fix it. If your going to see some track time GO CA. I ran a 9.02 8th mile on a relatively stock ca with my subs bumpin the whole time. I love my little motor. :beer: enough of my bablin flip a coin.
get whadeva u can get cheap!
I don\'t know about the Ka besides ithat it came in everything that nissan made even the hardbody truck. Do you really want a truck motor or a baby skyline motor.
Well heres how im looking at it ive never drove a S12 with a CA or a KA in it but this is from my toyota experiances. My lil 82 celica with its 22r truck motor and less than 100hp (i cant find the exact figures) but its a lil torque monster and thats why I love it its not a rever by any means but down low is where it counts even with its open diff and cut springs its keep me entertained while I wait on my KA\'d S12. My plans are to turbo the KA but just for a stock KA ill have all sorts of fun with it Cheesy
If it say\'s NISSAN on top, POWER can be made.
anyone ever thought of a VQ35 with twin turbos?
that would be sweeeeeeeet.
As for FJ\'s,I\'d proberly break anything else
ok, getting a little wierd here. Julie, what are you going to use the car for? Drags? Drift? Stoplight to stoplight? If its drag, then go all out and dump a 289 or 302 ford V8 in there and be done with it!
Reliable and cheap; KA24DE(T). You can get great/clean motors for cheap from 240 guys doing SR swaps. 4 wires to run and you\'re done. If you want to turbo, find an SS Auto Chrome exhaust mani on line (they go for about 80 USD used), and a clean T25 for 100... A sandwich plate between the oil filter to run oil to the turbo and a few other little bits here and there and you\'ll get a 200+hp engine for under 1200 (cnd 8-) You have to surf a few other sites and read on other builds. Decide on what you want the car to do and think about how it will behave. I\'ve driven a CA18DET S12, its not the car for me... the stock rear gear is killing the driveablity of that motor, and with your solid axle the gear is even lower... The motor is laggy and just a dog under 4500. This CA18DET is slower than my completely stock KA24DE S12.
If you want to be different, you can find RedTop SR20DET\'s for cheap... Well, I can find them for cheap. There\'s a RedTop I can get right now, no turbo, for 600CND... A good turbo for 100CND, stir well and TA DA!!!
First thing first, figure out what you want the car to be.
I\'ve driven a CA18DET S12, its not the car for me... the stock rear gear is killing the driveablity of that motor, and with your solid axle the gear is even lower... The motor is laggy and just a dog under 4500. This CA18DET is slower than my completely stock KA24DE S12.
O_o I think the CA you drove was probably either pretty well flogged out or not very well tuned. While I agree that the gear ratios are a bit tall, that just gives you get better economy and its not like the CA18DET is begging for more torque - if it lags a bit due to the tall gearing, just kick back a gear and the lag vanishes. I wouldn\'t call it a dog under 4500 either, sure it doesn\'t start to really open up til about 3800 but from there its just begging to be set free.
Well, the problem is, most CA18DET\'s that find their way to the states ARE worn out and beat up. That\'s why I\'m not a big fan of JDM motors, we get a bunch of crap here...
Well, the problem is, most CA18DET\'s that find their way to the states ARE worn out and beat up. That\'s why I\'m not a big fan of JDM motors, we get a bunch of crap here...
Mr_Furious, if you can find me a good turbo for $100CDN (T2 or T28, doesn\'t matter), I\'ll be all over it. PM me please.
[snip]
A good turbo for 100CND, stir well and TA DA!!!
First thing first, figure out what you want the car to be.
Weren\'t C18DETs \"made\" in Canada also? If so, parts shouldn\'t be that hard to get ahold of. It\'s FJ parts that are hard to get ahold of in the states.
If it say\'s NISSAN on top, POWER can be made.
anyone ever thought of a VQ35 with twin turbos?
that would be sweeeeeeeet.
As for FJ\'s,I\'d proberly break anything else
Weren\'t C18DETs \\\"made\\\" in Canada also? If so, parts shouldn\'t be that hard to get ahold of. It\'s FJ parts that are hard to get ahold of in the states.
wow, why hasn\'t anyone said just get parts from an 88 pulsar NX SE. came with a non turbo CA18DE and whoa, for all practical purposes has the same internals. Gaskets, rings, bearings, oil pump, water pump, timing belt, you name it. THE SAME. Use 300zx TT parts for turbo gaskets.
check out my website for all things CA.
[url]www.ca18det.org[/a]
and holy crap, a KA can\'t hold a candle to a well tuned twin cam CA. GT28R, tuned ECU and other bolt ons and my s13 can hold its own against damn near anything I\'ve run across. My twin cam KA s12 is fast, but not anywhere near even a stock CA swapped s13.
Sean
Nissan can bring parts in from Japan if asked. Any Nissan dealership in the world can get the Japanese parts catalog and order special parts from Nissan Japan if they want too. You may have to find a dealer that is willing to take the time to help you.
I myself am a torque guy. I know my car isn\'t fast, but at least it feels fast. High HP and low torque is almost anti-climactic.
The motor is laggy and just a dog under 4500. This CA18DET is slower than my completely stock KA24DE S12.
I think it would be closer than you think, a stock ca18det is only rated at 175 while the ka is like 150, you add some bolt ons to the KA and the power output would be pretty close, and the KA would be better off the line due to better low end torque. I think it could keep up if not beat a stock ca18det.
and holy crap, a KA can\'t hold a candle to a well tuned twin cam CA
If you want to turbo, find an SS Auto Chrome exhaust mani on line (they go for about 80 USD used)
I\'m sorry, what? The KA holds a flamethrower to the SR20, so what does that make the CA18 look like?
I think it would be closer than you think, a stock ca18det is only rated at 175 while the ka is like 150, you add some bolt ons to the KA and the power output would be pretty close, and the KA would be better off the line due to better low end torque. I think it could keep up if not beat a stock ca18det.
you fail. hmm, lets go find the highest HP KA-T I can, and post dyno charts... jesus, these kind of charts exist for the SR and the CA as well, so well done. you\'ve proven nothing.
Stock boost? I am sure there running more then 6 psi to get there. You may have me with the rev limit though. But how fast would the ca take to rev to there in a race. the ka would be at top speed a little sooner, though probably isn\'t as high as the ca motor, but if you doing 1/4 mile times, you never reach top speed anyways. And I wasn\'t thinking of a ka in an s13, I was thinking in an s12. I would like to see a race between the 2, A KA with just bolt ons verses a ca totally stock, may an exhaust and such, but running the stock boost. I think it would still be closer then you let on to be.
There\'s no point in comparing an NA engine with no variable valve or lift to a turbo engine. The turbo engine will always outpower the NA engine because it will always tend to make more power.
Not sure were it came from, just thought that stock for stock, it would be close. Between a no modified turbo, and a KA with bolt ons exhaust and maybe a chip. A turbo KA would own the ca motor.
speaking from experience I love my KA. I just drove my freshly swapped KA S12 from Seattle to Cocoa Beach, FL in 3 1/2 days (by myself, 75mph average)and saw 130+mph in Utah at 3/4 throttle. No overheating no glitches, just purr and howl. The KA has the lowend torque plus when the cams come on song this baby really sings a swingin tune. Nothing sounds like a big displacement four banger. Now I\'m not knocking the CA18det it\'s a cool Little engine but in America and our driving styles give me a torquey KA24DE and maybe a turbo and I am one happy car freak.
Plus she was still pulling 60mph at 11,000ft above sea level as I entered the Eisenhour Tunnel in Colorado. If i\'d had a turbo we would have seen 100mph.
though probably isn\'t as high as the ca motor, but if you doing 1/4 mile times, you never reach top speed anyways.Wo, wo, wo. Time out. I don\'t mean to interrupt this debacle, but that is not correct. If whatever you are driving is not reaching its top speed by the end of the track then you are not setup correctly. Now obviously this is in relation to wheel spin and traction off the line, but in general you want the car to be fully wound out by the end so that you can get there faster.
Wo, wo, wo. Time out. I don\'t mean to interrupt this debacle, but that is not correct. If whatever you are driving is not reaching its top speed by the end of the track then you are not setup correctly. Now obviously this is in relation to wheel spin and traction off the line, but in general you want the car to be fully wound out by the end so that you can get there faster.
Now back to the debate...
Where does the ca18det make its power vrs the ka24de motor, I would think you would want to keep it in its power band. Is the ca still making power at 8000 RPM or has it dropped off. Just because you can rev that high, doesn\'t mean it will go much faster
OK, OK. I give up, sheesh. I still would rather have a KA. I thought the 240\'s were heavier and the Civics were lighter though. Was the SI stock? You said the 240 was stock, what about the SI. Smaller motor beating bigger motor, kinda tuff to swallow for me, especially a little Honda motor. A small motor with a turbo beating a bigger motor, I could see that. (Hangs head in shame and walks away).
haha, don\'t be discouraged! if you\'ve never driven the two side by side, its not so easy to understand the conclusion. I mean, even a 400hp SR doesn\'t feel like it has the off the line grunk that the KA does.
for example: I drove my friend\'s s14 with an SR20 and a gt25r on it, putting down 375ish whp. Then I hopped into my then-KA powered s13 and I swear the KA felt like it jumped faster from a stop. Like if you\'d floor the s14, it\'d feel real slow and sluggish until 5000, then it would smoke the tires from 6000 to 8000. Its a completely different driving experience. Personally I love the turbo lag. Its so awesome when it hits hard and spins the tires at high rpm! And to be honest, driving around with a new GT ballbearing turbo you really don\'t even get the lag. As long as you\'re up reasonably high in the rpm range the transition from off boost to full boost is super fast, its just when accelerating from low rpm or from a stop that you notice that its slow feeling. Transient response has improved GREATLY with the new GT turbo technology (over the older journal bearing turbos that came stock on the s12s and s13s). I mean even GT30 and GT40 powered cars have a much more useable powerband.
Sean
OK, OK. I give up, sheesh. I still would rather have a KA. I thought the 240\'s were heavier and the Civics were lighter though. Was the SI stock? You said the 240 was stock, what about the SI. Smaller motor beating bigger motor, kinda tuff to swallow for me, especially a little Honda motor. A small motor with a turbo beating a bigger motor, I could see that. (Hangs head in shame and walks away).
The B series is up there with the SR, 3S, 4A as one of the best 4 cylinders ever produced.