My Build Story...The 12welve gets some Luv! (Project High Response)

Started by 8SixS12 · Oct 27, 2012 · 255postsSMF 2010–26

8SixS12Oct 27, 2012, 1:03 am · #1

Well, this crazy ride all started with my love affair with the Mitsubishi Starion. I was partial to the 86 - 89 models. I knew I wanted a turbo car and I liked the idea of the wide body with OEM staggered wheels. I searched for a whole year and couldnt find a diamond star that wasn't rusted out or SEVERELY over priced. At the time though, I was a line tech at a certain crapy ass Nissan dealership with very little work and a lot of time on my hands. It was one of those days when it cost me more to show up to work than the hours I was turning I got in a older pathfinder that had a problem that my consult could'nt help me with so I had to go upstairs in the storage room to find the SM. While looking around in all the dust and spider webs I ran across the SM for the '87 200sx! I thought to myself "hey my buddy from my old neighborhood had one of those" . He was sick alot and I think he had Sickle Cell. His Mom bought him a brand new '88 SE! I remember when he first got it. I thought it was the coolest thing I had ever seen. I mean come on, what else back then had smokin ass body kit like the SE? Okay maybe the SHiro Special Z but the 12 was different...unique even. We went everywhere in that thing! Can you imagine a couple of 18 year olds rollin' around Queens NY in a spankin' new SE! So I started to do some research and found Club-S12. I could'nt stop lurking in here! Then I thought man this would be a cool car to have. A guy that worked in the bay next to me had a 240 with a SR swap. What a cocky SB! I said there's no way I'm gonna get a s13. Everybody was on the 240/SR swap bandwagon and I'm just not one of those guys who likes to do what everyone else is doing. So the hunt for a s12 was in high gear. I searched the net and local adds for 6 months and all I could find was rustbuckets and shitboxes! Here we go again! I was about to give in and started looking at fox body Mustangs!!! Yup, that was until I realized why I don't get along with too many muscle car guys. I won't elaberate on that as I work with them all day long and besides, not ALL of them are bad guys. Anyway, I took a break on looking for a car for a while. Then I was messing around on ebay motors and there it was! The cleanest 12 I had seen thus far! She had all the options I wanted AND it was a turbo car!!!!!! I bought my 12 in January of '09 and the rest.....well, the rest I plan on posting it all right here with lots of pics in the coming weeks updating whenever I can so stay tuned! I can already tell it's gonna be a sick ride! I say that figuratively and literally! 8Six out...for now.

Johnny_boiOct 27, 2012, 1:27 am · #2

Pics please :)

8SixS12Oct 30, 2012, 6:50 pm · #3

Let's get it started. First here's a look at the car. Here she is right after she rolled off the transporter from Cali.
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I know it's blury, but this was pre-iphone so the quality on my old celli was poor to say the least.
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After her first bath.....And no, I did not use Armor all on the tires. That stuff is terrible.
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First Engine bay pic...notice the mis-matched plug wires. :woow:
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P Bucket isn't cooperating with me right now so I'll have to post more pics later.

turbo-s12Oct 30, 2012, 11:48 pm · #4

nice car looks pretty clean

silvertonOct 31, 2012, 1:21 am · #5

Very nice find! Good luck with her.

8SixS12Oct 31, 2012, 5:47 pm · #6

Now you know what the car looks like, now it's time to let you in on my plans. Initially, the plan was to swap in a KA24DE but that's just blasphemy! After all this twelve is an original turbo car so it's gotta have a hair dryer hung on the engine. So I started researching KA-Ts. After about a year of research, gathering parts and lot's of planning that idea went straight out the window when I saw an add on craigslist for a SR20DET that supposedly had a spun bearing. So I contacted the guy and traveled across town to check it out with little expectation. (you'll see why in a bit) I finally make it to this guys friend's house who also had an eclipse project car in the same garage where the engine was sitting on an old tire. I said to myself "what a colossal waste of time this is gonna be". So I took a look at it anyway since I traveled all this way. So I ask if I can take off the valve cover....not bad. Looks like a motor to me. Then we flip the motor on it's side so I can take off the lower oil pan and inside was a goey milky mess. A blown head gasket perhaps? I turned the motor and it spun okay with no interference. I didn't know for sure so I tell the guy never mind, not interested. I told him, for $600 it wasn't worth my time or money. As I started to get back in my truck, the guys says "wait make me an offer" so I said the first thing that came to mind and offered him $300. He took it! And before he could change his mind it was strapped on the back of lil' man ready to go home. (that's a nickname my brother in law gave my 94' Toyota P/U)

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This is what it looked like when I got it home....damn what the hell is up with that color scheme man?
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It was pretty beat and missing a lot of odds and ends but the bones were good....couldn't beat it for 300 funtickets! I figured even if it was toast on the inside I could part it out and recoup my funds.
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turbo-s12 on 11:48:41 PM / 30-Oct-12
nice car looks pretty clean

Thanks!
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silverton on 01:21:36 AM / 31-Oct-12
Very nice find! Good luck with her.

'preciate it!

sideways_s12Oct 31, 2012, 10:23 pm · #7

nice clean as fuck!

turbo-s12Oct 31, 2012, 11:30 pm · #8

looks like reds car....sr will be a nice addition :)

rednucleusNov 1, 2012, 12:42 am · #9

turbo-s12 on 11:30:16 PM / 31-Oct-12
looks like reds car....sr will be a nice addition :)

lol didn't notice that - must be cuz it's a turbo and has real paint on the hood!

8SixS12Nov 1, 2012, 8:57 am · #10

Thanks guys but there's not much real paint left on my hood. It's pretty much faded as a mofo.

ArroNov 1, 2012, 10:26 am · #11

I'm liking the green n' blue theme on the engine.

8SixS12Nov 1, 2012, 3:23 pm · #12

Haha What's up Arro? Sorry bro but the green n blue is long gone. I just couldn't stand it anymore.

8SixS12Nov 3, 2012, 12:15 pm · #13

Let's back track a little: The 12 was driven for two years on the CA18ET and I have to say it's not a terrible motor. The turbo lasted about 8 months so I swapped it out for a ebay unit I got off a guy for like $70. I almost lasted long enough to pass emissions but, the oil inlet line I had rigged up had fallen on the manifold and spewed oil all over the dyno. I decided to stop being cheap and bought a brand new s15BB turbo when I was working at Nissan. It worked great but was obviously too much turbo fo the 18ET.

Note the size differences: S15BB on the left compared to the ebay t25 on the right
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The only other major problems I had with it was the alternator and starter which are wear items. There was an oil leak I had tracked to the oil pan so I replaced the gasket. So no leaks for about three months and then another one started. It ended up being the front seal and I just wasn't tring to deal with it. Soon after that I just got tired of putting "band-aids " on it. I left the 12 alone and started researching the KA24DE-T. You already know the how that ended up.
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So back to the present....

This thing was dirty as hell! I started ripping off accessories and what not. I took the motor to the local coin spot for a pressure wash.

Before:
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After:

I ran short on time so I could'nt really scrub it like I wanted to. I just wanted to get the major grit off the motor before I tore it down.

Here it is once I got it on the engine stand
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Jeremy ANov 3, 2012, 7:38 pm · #14

8SixS12 on 12:15:37 PM / 03-Nov-12
I almost lasted long enough to pass emissions but, the oil inlet line I had rigged up had fallen on the manifold and spewed oil all over the dyno.

Dude, thats pretty funny.

How much horsepower did your ca18et have with the ebay turbo? Nice SR too.

8SixS12Nov 6, 2012, 8:37 am · #15

Jeremy A on 07:38:31 PM / 03-Nov-12
Dude, thats pretty funny.

How much horsepower did your ca18et have with the ebay turbo? Nice SR too.

I wouldn't know I was at the emissions test station. The eBay turbo was in need of a rebuild so it would'nt have lasted anyway.
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I forgot to mention the lower intake was white. Still not understanding the color combination. :unsure:

8SixS12Nov 7, 2012, 2:59 pm · #16

First, off comes the valve cover....

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Doesn't look too bad...

The first thing I noticed is that someone has definately been in this motor before and they did a half-assed job putting it back together. :cantlook:

Next I removed the cams and loose valvetrain parts noting their positions in the head and I got this cool little storage container from Lowes that allowed me to stand the lifters straight up so no unwanted air gets in them. I'm still gonna bleed them before they go back in regardless.

8SixS12Nov 10, 2012, 5:06 pm · #17

Now let's get the head off and see what's really going on on here:
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I think this thing has the wrong head gasket! Some of the bolt holes don't even line up.

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...And a little detonation in cylinders 1 and 3:
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I was a little worried about the chips at the top of the cylinder walls but I guess the machine shop will let me know the good or bad news. Looks like it's gonna need to be bored .20 over to me though. If any more than that I will start over with a different block.

Johnny_boiNov 11, 2012, 1:16 pm · #18

nice work

8SixS12Nov 11, 2012, 2:02 pm · #19

ThX Johnny.

8SixS12Nov 13, 2012, 11:00 am · #20

Okay back to inspection...Let's flip this bitch over and see what she's got!
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Damn this guy had a thing for RTV! The shit is all over the place. Definitely getting rid of that pan. That ish is toast!

Wow that doesn't look good...But no worries. The S13 pick up is getting chucked too. Getting one from a S14 instead.

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Okay, now with the lower oil pan baffle removed and the upper pan off I can't see any shrapnel. I busted the rod bolts loose and took out the pistons so I could inspect the bearings.
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I could see this thing spinning a bearing with all the milk in this motor...
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Now it was time to get the crank out and get it to the machine shop...
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Update...here's the motor after I picked it up from the machine shop!
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OEM valvetrain was still in great shape so no adamantium valves and retainers this time Wolverine! This won't be a high reving engine anyways so just needed new guides and a valve job...better than new!
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Jeremy ANov 13, 2012, 12:48 pm · #21

Excellent, SR-licious! What did the machine work run you?

8SixS12Nov 13, 2012, 12:59 pm · #22

Here's the block back on the stand. It had to be bored .20 over (just like I thought it would) so I'll be using 86.5mm slugs.
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Jeremy A on 12:48:38 PM / 13-Nov-12Excellent, SR-licious! What did the machine work run you?

I'll give you a total when I'm done. I'm not happy with the way the mating surface of the block is looking so I'm pretty sure I'll get it resurfaced. Before the motor went to the machine shop, I was planning on a standard rebuild so I was just gonna throw a stock head gasket on it...now I'm not so sure. Right now I'm right at 5 and change.

8SixS12Nov 14, 2012, 1:57 pm · #23

Btw, the crank ended up being perfect. Looks like it didn't have a spun bearing after all. All they had to do was a micro polish so it will only need standard bearings.
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D-sport S12Nov 14, 2012, 5:30 pm · #24

Bonus!
Going to go with ACl bearings or whats the plan in that department?

8SixS12Nov 14, 2012, 7:49 pm · #25

Sup Jesse? I thought you'd chime in sooner or later. Thanks for putting me up on the S14 pickup. I had no idea it was even an option.
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D-sport S12 on 05:30:37 PM / 14-Nov-12Bonus!
Going to go with ACl bearings or whats the plan in that department?

Yup, I've already got ACL race main, rod and thrust bearings.

D-sport S12Nov 15, 2012, 2:13 am · #26

Nice! Yea all you have to get for the s14 pickup is the proper gasket for it which is like $2

8SixS12Nov 15, 2012, 6:00 am · #27

Already came with the pickup. This one doesn't use the o-ring.

D-sport S12Nov 15, 2012, 1:51 pm · #28

8SixS12 on 06:00:31 AM / 15-Nov-12Already came with the pickup. This one doesn't use the o-ring.

Yup that's right, I think I lost my gasket, or mine didn't come with one. I got mine a long time ago...

8SixS12Nov 17, 2012, 9:48 am · #29

So here's a couple of teasers of what's going in the block:
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Who came up with teasers anyway...i can't stand teaser pics so...

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Here's a shot of the 86.5mm, 8.5:1 CP pistons the machine shop attached to the OEM rods:
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I didn't even know they were going to put them together but whatever. You can also see a pack of KrammLoc wrist pin locks. The circular locks that come with the kit work fine but I decided to get these for a little added insurance. They have an L shaped arm that snaps into the access hole when installed so they have no chance of rotating which could potentially cause considerable engine damage. I know it's probably overkill but I only want to do this once.

D-sport S12Nov 17, 2012, 3:09 pm · #30

I love being able to see yourself in your pistons, it was a happy day when I got my cp s

8SixS12Nov 17, 2012, 5:28 pm · #31

Do you get much piston slap when the motor is cold?

D-sport S12Nov 17, 2012, 5:43 pm · #32

So far, I haven't really heard any. My brother in law asked the same thing cause he has forged in his v8. Mean while I only have about 100km on my engine

8SixS12Nov 21, 2012, 1:59 pm · #33

Made a come up on a c-trans out of a 87 XE at the local Pull-a-part.
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Shifts great. But I'll inspect the gears when I do the bell housing swap.

8SixS12Nov 27, 2012, 3:27 pm · #34

SR Trans when I was about to do the bellhousing swap
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Drain fluid

The damned tail housing sealant broke loose so I had to re-seal that too. No biggie, I wanted to inspect the gears anyways. I didn't get a pic of that part though.

vegasS12Nov 27, 2012, 3:52 pm · #35

D-sport S12 on 03:09:28 PM / 17-Nov-12I love being able to see yourself in your pistons, it was a happy day when I got my cp s

I thinks its always a great day when you get fresh new sexy pistons!

nice and great come up on that sr!
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PS: I have tomie rocker arm stoppers that came in my SR swap. I ended up buying a set of greddy's. if interested lmk..........

8SixS12Nov 27, 2012, 8:28 pm · #36

Thx Vegas. Love your build bruh!
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Vegas, why'd you get greddy RAS?

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Got the BH swap done but I had to pull the tranny back apart...
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I forgot to put the shift forks into neutral >:( Might as well inspect the gears....
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That's what happens when you have to stop and start and stop again. Chaps my ass!

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Anyway, the gears all look good so back together with this ish!
Off with the new old gasket residue. Used a scraper and fine grit wheel on my drill and all the mating surfaces for a tight seal.
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Got the damned forks in neutral...
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And back together again.
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All done!....again
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As most of you probably already figured out from a previous thread about the motor, I decided to change direction on my build ( The CP pistons probably gave it away ). I was initially going to just get the head / block checked, bored and, honed. You know the usual crap and then put it all back together with the stock gasket kit. Then some of the muscle heads I work with started talking major $hit. I never talk about my car to them but I just couldn't do a "stock" build anymore. I thought to myself "these kats need a tall glass of shut up juice!" So a friend kept eggin' me on to "build" the motor so finally, I gave in.

His interpretion of the build was way different than mine though. He was all about big horsepower numbers. IMO, horespower is great but torque gets you down the road. Yeah, I know SRs are not torque monsters by any means so my plan is to build this car with low to mid range power in mind. This build will be all about response as apposed to high RPM horsepower and all the parts I've chosen are centered aroound that theory.

vegasS12Nov 28, 2012, 3:34 pm · #37

No real reason I went with greddy, Honestly both look the same except one is gold and other is black. The previous owner told me it had a new nismo thermo. and Tomie RAS. I didn't believe him haha.
So I bought all new parts before I toke the SR apart since I knew I wanted a built motor.

8SixS12Nov 28, 2012, 6:38 pm · #38

vegasS12 on 03:34:40 PM / 28-Nov-12No real reason I went with greddy, Honestly both look the same except one is gold and other is black. The previous owner told me it had a new nismo thermo. and Tomie RAS. I didn't believe him haha.
So I bought all new parts before I toke the SR apart since I knew I wanted a built motor.

Ah ok, cool. I thought there was a difference I didn't know about. They all seem to be the same to me. That's why I went with Circuit sports RAS. They were considerably less than the others out there and serve the same function. I got them for a little added security although my SR won't see much of anything above the factory rev limits.

vegasS12Nov 28, 2012, 6:47 pm · #39

Nice yea my Sr is going to be getting a bit more beat on lol I'm building it to just go nuts and play with. :yay!:
PS I also have a spec clutch and flywheel if needed. I can sell for a lower price if interested......
http://club-s12.org/retro4/index.php?topic=36111.0
Thats all i have to offer for sale promise lmao

D-sport S12Nov 28, 2012, 7:26 pm · #40

And if you want to keep the little baffle on the exhaust side with the ras, you will have to dermal one corner if I remember correctly.
Are you doing cams? Right now for the brief time I drove mine it had a great mid range with stock head and a gt2871

8SixS12Nov 29, 2012, 10:42 pm · #41

D-sport S12 on 07:26:20 PM / 28-Nov-12And if you want to keep the little baffle on the exhaust side with the ras, you will have to dermal one corner if I remember correctly.
Are you doing cams? Right now for the brief time I drove mine it had a great mid range with stock head and a gt2871

Yeah, I've seen it done before and yeah I'm doing mild cams.
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And speaking of cams...
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Crower stage 1 cams FYA!

8SixS12Dec 1, 2012, 9:32 am · #42

Block back from the machine shop...again.
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A buddy of mine works at a machine shop had it square decked and resurfaced. Looks like new!

Much better!

ProlowtoneDec 1, 2012, 7:38 pm · #43

that is much better

sideways_s12Dec 3, 2012, 1:14 am · #44

Looks good...

8SixS12Dec 7, 2012, 10:38 pm · #45

Update to the parts bin:

Here's when my Ishihara-Johnson crank scraper / windage tray came in:
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This will help with acceleration by getting that excess oil off the crank and free up some power by breaking up that nasty windage cloud that causes drag on the rotating assembly.

darryn.Dec 12, 2012, 4:49 am · #46

Liking where this is going man :) SR <3
I was thinking of using BC cams in mine but after a bit of research found the knock pin in the intake cam is out on them some up to 16* needing an adjustable gear to dial it into where it should be. Just a heads up incase you havent heard of it before. I read of people putting them in and loosing power because of it :/

8SixS12Dec 12, 2012, 8:31 pm · #47

darryn. on 04:49:28 AM / 12-Dec-12Liking where this is going man :) SR <3
I was thinking of using BC cams in mine but after a bit of research found the knock pin in the intake cam is out on them some up to 16* needing an adjustable gear to dial it into where it should be. Just a heads up incase you havent heard of it before. I read of people putting them in and loosing power because of it :/

Yeah, thanks for the tip but my cams are Crower, not Brian Crower (BC). Totally different cam manufacturers. I wanted to try them simply because nobody has any experience with them that I can tell. Sounds crazy I know but I'm not a bandwagon type of guy.

sideways_s12Dec 13, 2012, 1:23 pm · #48

Didn't know crower and brian crower were different companies are they cheaper than bc?

darryn.Dec 13, 2012, 2:15 pm · #49

Oh yeah, I was always under the impression that they were the same company :P I thought it was strange because I had heard of crower being pretty well known for their good reputation and work/products, then when I read about the timing issue and that they were mass produced china cams it struck me as odd. Glad thats cleared up now haha.

What turbo are you running with the s1 cams? Sorry if Ive missed it in an earlier post :P

8SixS12Dec 14, 2012, 5:01 pm · #50

This link should clear up the BC / Crower relationship: http://www.briancrower.com/about.shtml

As for the turbo, I'll be running the s15 dual BB turbo that's on the CA18ET right now but if it's out of spec when I pull it out I'm going with either a Disco potato or the Tomei ARMS M7960 kit. The T28BB should be fine though because I only ran it for about 6 months.