date not saved · #51
Heh, not to give you even more work ... I'd love to hear about this "adapted" S13 manifold
DET bottom end swap
This thread was saved without dates. "Around Jul 2004" is estimated from neighbouring threads.
date not saved · #52
Heh, not to give you even more work ... I'd love to hear about this "adapted" S13 manifold
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/30psi/DSCF0002chopped.jpg
date not saved · #53
heh ... guess I had that coming ;)
How did you make it work?
I have the same top plenum, just don't know how to use it :evil:
date not saved · #54
Man I'd love to see how that works!!! Might be worth it to replace the loooooong skinny tubed intake that's on there now...
date not saved · #55
The s13 manifold consists of two halves which bolt together. The right hand side half of this is used but by welding the S12 flanges in place of the S13 flange. The now revised right hand side is bolted back up to the plenum. The PCV valve is in a different place so some extra tubing is used to join this up.
Basically ignore the FICD and AAC....
Change the throttle position sensor
Pipe up the air regulator and block off one water line and an air pipe on the AAC.
I think thats it..
date not saved · #56
Well I think this page from Tomei pretty much confirms that CA18DE and CA18DET rods are the same. Go here http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-catalogue/e061_conrod.html It says CA18DE (T) and lists one part number and also says the same thing for the RB25DE (T). This would mean that the rods work in either the naturally aspirated version or the turbo version. So they have to be the same if that is true.
date not saved · #57
ya seems like the are the same but of course the det would be stronger either due to material or shotpeening..
date not saved · #58
Well i'm willing to bet the stock CA18DE rods will take more of a beating than our stock CA18ET rods will just based on the difference in thickness alone.
date not saved · #59
oh thats a gaurentee. im guessing int he neighborhood of 250-275hp or so ponies..
date not saved · #60
heresa a pic of the ca18et and ca18det rods can you tell which is which..lol
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_img_a/243105_227_full.jpg
date not saved · #61
oh oh oh oh oh oh
can i take a crack at that question :) LOL
date not saved · #62
oh oh oh oh oh
can i still answer this LMAO
date not saved · #63
here's a question ... has anyone actually bent an ET rod yet? *lol*
I know they look weaker, but not much
Ounce of prevention and all that, don't get me wrong ... I still want beefier rods, just wondering who's broken a ca18et racing it (not just from long periods of abuse, bad fuelling or just neglect in general) and why it happened?
I've seen some pretty chewed up motors, but none have been something I would consider a power threshold question.
date not saved · #64
well once i get my other motor ready im going to throw some major boost to my current block and see what it can take
date not saved · #65
So would A set of stock de/t rods and a set of det pistons work in the Et block? I'm curious about the stock valve relief and wether or not they will connect. Also, would you be able to build a pulsar ca18de block and then just use that? Or is the crack slightly longer than the et. In that case would the et crank work in the pulsar block with de/t pistons and rods?
date not saved · #66
det rods and pistons work fine in the et block not sure about the de rods but will find out soon..and the de crank is different then the et so you cant use that
date not saved · #67
det rods and pistons work fine in the et block not sure about the de rods but will find out soon..and the de crank is different then the et so you cant use that
Great i've been wondering if the DE rods will work for some time now. I'll be anxious to hear the results of that.
date not saved · #68
I see, well I was curious since being a dsmer I have a tad bit of background with mix and match motor options :) . I suppose my only other question would be what other cars would I be able to source a block from? Such as the Ca16, if the bore was the same, is the difference in displacement simply stroke? Because that would give me a pretty cheap way to get a block. So if you guys have any ideas as to what other motors would be good donors for the det rods and pistons with an et crank, I'm all ears.
date not saved · #69
det rods and pistons work fine in the et block not sure about the de rods but will find out soon..and the de crank is different then the et so you cant use that
How can the DET pistons work with the ET head? The valve reliefs are completely different.
date not saved · #70
the only difference is that the det reliefs are about half as deep... thats the only difference
date not saved · #71
the only difference is that the det reliefs are about half as deep... thats the only difference
They're half as deep because the valves are half the diameter. In addition the valve reliefs are in completely different locations. The fact that the exhaust valve reliefs over lap on the ET is because its a shared piston casting that can be used on any cylinder as the valve arrangements between neighbouring cylinders are symmetrical.
date not saved · #72
ya but this is not a worry since the timing is setup that even with the piston at tdc the valve has quite a bit of room to open before it where to hit the piston...
date not saved · #73
With the design of the SOHC head, the valves don't get too far down into the motor anyway. As long as you check the piston-valve clearance, I can't see where it would cause a problem...
date not saved · #74
With the design of the SOHC head, the valves don't get too far down into the motor anyway. As long as you check the piston-valve clearance, I can't see where it would cause a problem...
i have checked it and its all good unless you put the timming belt on 3-5 teeth off
date not saved · #75
Well now is your cam straight up, retarded, advanced, or what? That gets into a whole different ballgame... :laugh:
date not saved · #76
i put the cam in the exact way the fsm states.. i was saying it would cause probs if you put the timing belt on wrong by a few teeth
date not saved · #77
ahhhhh... ok thanks that clears it up... :mike:
date not saved · #78
I think that the idea of the reliefs maybe to avoid contact if the cambelt were to snap... Also they may be ramps to aid flow in/out of the combustion chamber.
Anyway I'm using JE pistons, and I had a camshaft failure, and only suffered minor piston contact, more of a tiny scratch...
I'm also using a vernier pulley and if this was to be used with the DET pistons you could be at risk if the vernier adjustment were to slip..But I'm not so it doesn't matter lol.
I would recommend that a good engine builder with experience in swapping combustion chamber shapes etc help you ascertain how much clearance you really have...
date not saved · #79
Ok i have a question about something.. someone earlier mentioned that the tomei kit comes with a ca20 crank and det rods and pistons? so.. if i was to do this in a ca18et block would this work? or would you need tomeis pistons. cause this combination would kick ass.. ( ca18de rods ond pistons with ca20e crank and ca18et electronics ) 9.5:1 with boost :)
date not saved · #80
Ok i have a question about something.. someone earlier mentioned that the tomei kit comes with a ca20 crank and det rods and pistons? so.. if i was to do this in a ca18et block would this work? or would you need tomeis pistons. cause this combination would kick ass.. ( ca18de rods ond pistons with ca20e crank and ca18et electronics ) 9.5:1 with boost :)
hmm didnt think about that....
date not saved · #81
Ok i have a question about something.. someone earlier mentioned that the tomei kit comes with a ca20 crank and det rods and pistons? so.. if i was to do this in a ca18et block would this work? or would you need tomeis pistons. cause this combination would kick ass.. ( ca18de rods ond pistons with ca20e crank and ca18et electronics ) 9.5:1 with boost :)
It would have to be a shorter piston due to the increased stroke. So either a Tomei piston, or a custom piston.
I'm not a huge fan of stroker kits though, for the small amount of cubic inches that you gain, you really screw up the good rod/stroke ratio of the motor, and increase side loading of the pistons a lot.
date not saved · #82
ya the ca18et is basically a perfectly square motor now to think about it...so with the tomei stroker it will be over/under square?? i believe,... but either way it would be sweet to do the stroker... heck if you where planning a ca build up you would already spend the money on a rod/piston combo so throwing the ca20e crank would be a cheap(ive seen them new for under $300) way to up the c/r a bit and displacement, which would give better off boost repsone and quicker spool
as far as sideloading..the small amount of under/over square you would produce really wouldnt be a huge deal unless you start dealing with hords of power.. or many many miles, but if you build the motor for power it will need a rebuild way before the side loading really makes a notiable impact...
date not saved · #83
True, everybody has their own feelings on it, but I'm just not a big fan of em. Stroking also speeds the pistons way up, making more friction, and less dwell time at TDC.
If it was me, and I wanted more cubic inches, I'd build up the CA20... :laugh:
date not saved · #84
If it was me, and I wanted more cubic inches, I'd build up the CA20... :laugh:
well comparing a ca18et stroked to 2L to a ca20e the side load and piston speed of the ca20e would be the same if not more then the ca18et stroked...
so i really dont think the diference would be really different at all
the perks of dtroking the ca18 is u can use the ca18det bottom end which is way stronger then the ca18et or ca20e
date not saved · #85
Yeah, but it's not a DET bottom end with a CA20 crankshaft. I asked Tomei a while back if their crank was actually just a CA20 crank, or a new forging, and they just told me what the price was... :wall:
And as far as side loading goes, the CA20 is a taller block with much longer rods, thus restoring the great rod/stroke ratio...
date not saved · #86
My DET bottom end swap will be completed this weekend, hopefully it will drop in smoothly....
date not saved · #87
Cool keep us posted on your progress with that.
date not saved · #88
Will do...
There was a few technical issues. The head went on fine, but the hosing for the pcv valve was difficult so the head came off. Might be ready for tomorrow, pics will be taken before I drop the engine in.
date not saved · #89
Initial thoughts of using the S13 bolts are wrong as some only enter the block by about 10mm, which probably satisfactory on a standard engine will be no good.
A replacement with the same thread are Ford Zetec head bolts so these will be used.
date not saved · #90
Slowly getting there....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/30psi/Engine1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/30psi/Engine2.jpg
date not saved · #91
My crancke has recently gone for retirement and i have prepared myself to use a DET cranc. I will also use a DET flyweel, timing pulye, the big puly for belts to alternator and powerstering. and the DET oil pump. Today i will chcech if this suff will fir the ET block. If not i will use the DET block. And there is another diference i ET DET pistons. The DET pistons have a special enforcement in it to prevent the piston to expand to much during heeting up. The ET pistons do not have that stuff so the clearence between the ET piston and cylinder is grater the ne DET one on a cold engine. Thats wy the ET pistons are bigger but lighter.
date not saved · #92
What intake manifold is that?
date not saved · #93
The inlet manifold is from a CA18DET, adapted to fit the ET.
Don't think you'll be able to fit the DET oil pump, the nose of the DET crank is larger and as such the ET bottom cam pulley will need machining to go on the larger nose.
Are you sure you want to use DET pistons? On the DET the compression is 8.5 compared to the 8:1 on the ET. Obviously the head is different, and us such you won't have a compression of 8.5 but it will be 8.3:1.
date not saved · #94
and us such you won't have a compression of 8.5 but it will be 8.3:1.
since the det pistons are almost identical to the et ones the compression should be around 8.0-8.1 since the reliefs in the det psitons are a bit smaller
date not saved · #95
since the det pistons are almost identical to the et ones the compression should be around 8.0-8.1 since the reliefs in the det psitons are a bit smaller
Not sure here Bart, my JE pistons reduce the compression on a DET from 8.5 to 8.0. My compression I've been told is 7.8:1, therefore 0.5-0.2 = an increase of 0.3....
This isn't a problem and if anything will help improve power. The reason why the DET is higher CR is that its intercooler basically.
date not saved · #96
Today i will chceck if the DET pump will fit the ET. There is no problem withe cam puley becaus i have one from DET and it,s excact sice as ET except for the inside hole with is bigger.
date not saved · #97
Not sure here Bart, my JE pistons reduce the compression on a DET from 8.5 to 8.0. My compression I've been told is 7.8:1, therefore 0.5-0.2 = an increase of 0.3....
This isn't a problem and if anything will help improve power. The reason why the DET is higher CR is that its intercooler basically.
ya its .5 drop on the det... but you are using a et head so it will drop the c/r. so ya you are at about 7.8or so with the et head
date not saved · #98
ya its .5 drop on the det... but you are using a et head so it will drop the c/r. so ya you are at about 7.8or so with the et head
So to clarify...
My JE pistons reduce a DET engine compression from 8.5 to 8.
I've been told that these pistons are 7.8 when in the ET, therefore if someone was to use a std DET pistons in an ET, they wouldn't have a CR of 7.8 but 8.3, as the std DET pistons are 0.5 higher than a JE, so using a DET in an ET raises the CR from 8 to 8.3.
date not saved · #99
Which is fine with a beefier bottom end like this is. Go for it. Boost it like crazy (but well tuned of course) once you have it broken in.
date not saved · #100
So to clarify...
My JE pistons reduce a DET engine compression from 8.5 to 8.
I've been told that these pistons are 7.8 when in the ET, therefore if someone was to use a std DET pistons in an ET, they wouldn't have a CR of 7.8 but 8.3, as the std DET pistons are 0.5 higher than a JE, so using a DET in an ET raises the CR from 8 to 8.3.
yes, yes, yes, no if you use the ca18det pistons in a ca18et you will have the same cr as the stock et pistons..the pistons are virtually identical