This thread was saved without dates. "Around Jul 2004" is estimated from neighbouring threads.
Ok this is for anyone who knows about the CA18DET bottom end swap to the CA18ET. I know this has been done commonly in the UK. What I want to know is when you guys do this swap does the CA18DET flywheel work with the stock S12 starter?
So nobody knows this?
OK
So you want to convert from a CA18ET to a CA18DET bottom end, but still use the CA18ET head.
You will find that the nose of the crank on a DET is larger than that of an ET. So therefore you can't get the bottom pulley on for the cambelt.
So you will need to use the S12 crank and use the original flywheel.
You will have to use the DET head bolts. As these are a thicker gauge you have to use these. And as you may have guessed these are too long. In addition to increasing the size of the head bolt holes you will also have to make stacks for the head of the bolt to sit on as they're too long.
So there is no problem with using the DET rods on the ET crank? If you were to use the DET pistons and rods, you could use the ET block and other parts?
Yeah I would like to know this as well. I've been getting all kinds of conflicting answers as to what fits the stock crank and if the DET crank fits etc etc.
Well, from what I can tell as long as the CA18DE is the same as the DET, yeah it'll fit... I've got the PROSIS software for our machine shop that gives you specs on pretty much any motor, but no JDM stuff. Closest thing I have in the program is the CA18DE in the Pulsar NX...
Where is Bart when we need him? He has a CA18DET sitting in his garage so he could probably tell us what works and what doesn't since he was planning on using the bottom end from it.
Try emailing Bart.....like you said he's got one and is planning the same thing. I know he hasn't been here in quite a long time.
I just talked to him a few days ago, and he hasn't gotten far with the project yet......but try emailing him, he might have some answers.
Yeah I emailed him earlier today so we shall see what he knows about this so far. I'm sure he will have answers for us soon enough. I also contacted Denis from this site http://pages.eidosnet.co.uk/~denis/ . He has done the DET bottom end swap so i asked him some questions about that. Hopefully i can get some answers and set some of this info straight. Everytime I ask someone about this I seem to get a whole bunch of different answers and we need concrete information here.
The DET rods will work on the ET crank. However you have to use the DET pistons as the gudgeon pin is larger than the ET's. So you have to use the two together.
But I do not know if valve to piston clearance is an issue, because I am using JE forged pistons...Which have the proper clearance...
I've often found that no one knows enough, so I generally try to work it myself.
So you don't have to modify the rods at all to get them to fit right? I'm asking because I asked somone else about using CA18DE rods which to my knowledge should be the same as the CA18DET rods and they said the rod fillet is different and some machining work would be in order. Either they were full of it or the CA18DE rods are slightly different which i doubt since they both use the same cranks.
Why do you want to use CA18DE rods?
Just use the CA18DET pistons and rods together on the CA18ET crank.
If you were to use CA18DE rods on the CA18ET pistons they wouldn't fit. These rods are designed for use with the larger gudgeon pin on the DET pistons.
Best thing is for you to compare engine spec sheets between the two.
I was planning on using CA18DE rods and CA18DET forged pistons. Here in the states the CA18DET rods are hard to find for sure. It would be more cost effective to get the DE rods. I could source forged DET rods but I don't really need them to be all that strong because i'm only looking at 200-250 horses max and i'll be happy. Sure the stock rods might take the 200 horses but for how long? I would like it to be reliable and the cheapest way to do this would be CA18DE rods with forged CA18DET pistons (as finding stock DET pistons is also hard).
I was planning on using CA18DE rods and CA18DET forged pistons. Here in the states the CA18DET rods are hard to find for sure. It would be more cost effective to get the DE rods. I could source forged DET rods but I don't really need them to be all that strong because i'm only looking at 200-250 horses max and i'll be happy. Sure the stock rods might take the 200 horses but for how long? I would like it to be reliable and the cheapest way to do this would be CA18DE rods with forged CA18DET pistons (as finding stock DET pistons is also hard).
You'll be able to get DET pistons and rods from the UK very easily. Literally for no money at all. I'm using standard DET rods on forged pistons and the rods will easily handle the abuse that I will be subjecting them to.
People over here run the DET rods to over 300bhp. You may find the DE rods are thinner than the DET rods although the journal sizes might be the same.
Your gonna have to source an engine spec sheet for the DE by way of a service manual or similar.
I can find out the dimensions for you of a UK spec DE, ET and DET conrods, but I'd have to borrow someones service manual for the DE...
The gudeon pin on a DET is 23mm...
That would be great if you could do that. From what i've seen and read the CA18DE uses the same rods as the CA18DET does. They are much beefier than the CA18ET rods. I'm sure the specs you find will show that they are the same. If not i'll need a contact in the UK to source me some stock DET rods and possibly pistons.
One question: If you're using stock DET pistons, then won't the valve reliefs be in the wrong place???
No because the CA18ET pistons have the same 4 valve relief design as the CA18DET pistons. Nissan was obviously planning ahead.
Cool... :mike:
No because the CA18ET pistons have the same 4 valve relief design as the CA18DET pistons. Nissan was obviously planning ahead.no that isn't the reason,if you look at the head the valves alternate from left to right so it's cheaper to make one piston with 4 reliefs that to make two different pistons with alternating reliefs.
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/289000-289999/289960_7_full.jpg
Ahhh i could have looked at my head in the garage but didn't think of that. So that is why they did that. Good to know.
Yeah the reason why there are 4 reliefs was the accountants decision to make the engine cheaper. The DET piston will have to be different.
I should see that person tonight with the CA18DE info....
You can get the DET pistons very cheap from here. I'd suspect that the freight charges will cost the most!
Excellent. I appreciate all the help :bow:
Excellent. I appreciate all the help :bow:
Ooopss....
I forgot to get the book from him. His big ends went on his Bluebird and then a rod smashed out the side of the block, so I had to tow him safely home....
I can't wait to pull the engine apart to inspect the damage.
Anyway, have a look on www.sxoc.co.uk. This is a 200sx website which I spend 99% of my time on. There will almost certainly be someone who can sell you some rods & pistons.
If you can get those specs for me that would be awesome. Thanks.
If you can get those specs for me that would be awesome. Thanks.
Sorry please wait on me a little longer as I still need to go round to this fellas house....
No problem. I've got time. Thanks again
well, more hearsay
but the Tomei stroker kit uses a ca20e crankshaft.
And the standard ca18det rods
so if the ca18det rods bolt to the ca20e crank, the same should work for the ca18et
Yeah i'm getting the idea that everything should work out alright but I'd like to know for sure before i shell out some cash to buy the parts.
Bart is actually supposed to be checking out the DET rods and pistons on an ET crank and an ET block for me. He just got my crank from me over the weekend. Hopefully he checks it soon cause I want my engine built ASAP (getting tired of drivng my beater truck).
I know the ET rods are the same in the sense of connecting to the crank. The journal is the same size.
The DET piston gudgeon pin appears to be larger than the ET one, therefore the rods are different.
However I need to find out if DE rods are the same as DET rods, ie same length and same gudgeon pin diameter.
actually, odds are the pin hole is different ET to DE/DET
the SOHC CAs use a pressed pin, the DEs floating.
Yep we just want to be absolutely sure that the DE rods are identical to the DET rods. I've been wanting to use DE stock rods with Race Engineerings CA18DET forged pistons in the engine i'm rebuilding for sake of being able to take some more boost and abuse and be realiable in that I won't have to worry about throwing a rod at least not at the power levels i'm looking for.
OK
. In addition to increasing the size of the head bolt holes you will also have to make stacks for the head of the bolt to sit on as they're too long.
you only need to do this on 2 holes the rest will work just fine
So there is no problem with using the DET rods on the ET crank? If you were to use the DET pistons and rods, you could use the ET block and other parts?
yes the det rods and pistons will work just fine i just tested them on my old block and they work like a charm
.
But I do not know if valve to piston clearance is an issue, because I am using JE forged pistons...Which have the proper clearance...
.
the only time this will be an issue is whne you break a timing belt which more hten likely will result in valve to piston contact
One question: If you're using stock DET pistons, then won't the valve reliefs be in the wrong place???
nope they are only .5-1mm less deep then the et ones
Yep we just want to be absolutely sure that the DE rods are identical to the DET rods. I've been wanting to use DE stock rods with Race Engineerings CA18DET forged pistons in the engine i'm rebuilding for sake of being able to take some more boost and abuse and be realiable in that I won't have to worry about throwing a rod at least not at the power levels i'm looking for.
if you havent bought the det pistons yet let me know cause me and a few of my buddies areplanning on getting some stuff from race. so the more people that order the cheaper the price will be and also my friend has a account setup with race eng so it will be even cheaper
Yeah i'd definetly be in on that group buy. I haven't purchased anything yet but I was planning on it. I'd like to get a set of the 83.5mm bore DET pistons and also the rings for them.
ya i as well i called race and they sell nice rings with the pistons for about $537 for everyhting.. but like i said that will come down when we get at least 5 people and my buddies discount
Sounds good to me. Keep me posted via PM or email.
will do
I'm in for the group buy.
sweet thats 3 here and i can get at least 2-3 more so we should be set i'll let you know of the progress..
anyone else intereded..
nope they are only .5-1mm less deep then the et ones
I wouldn't that thought they would be the same valve reliefs as 2 of the reliefs overlap on an ET. That just simply couldn't work on a 4 valve head, unless of course Nissan decided to have a few too many beers that day...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/30psi/DSCF0009small.jpg
Standard DET piston which does have different valve reliefs to the ET:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/30psi/Stdpiston004.jpg
count me in on the group buy for forged pistons with rings and pins if all the issues of fit are resolved.
well if someone could get me a ca18de rod that they have laying around we'd know very quickly if this can work
I have a DET bottom end being shipped to me soon so it doesn't matter to me if the DE rods are the same.
I still want to know if they are the same. 30psi is supposed to be checking the specs on them for me when he gets the chance and comparing them to the DET specs. From what I have seen with aftermarket forged pieces for more recent Nissan engines is that the DE and DET versions of engines usually have the same rods.
I should hopefully find a chance this weekend. I've got a huge amount to do though. I've got an FJ20 that needs a few things done to it in order for me to sell it, I need to change my exhaust on my daily S12, and a I need to recon a cylinder head, fit a vernier pulley, and fit an adapted S13 manifold to the head for the CA18ET awaiting fitment to the DET bottom end...