Remote mount turbo V6 project

Thanks for the tip on the crankcase hose mistake....i'll block it off for the time being....i guess i could run a vacuum line to the back and connect to before the turbo

Is turboed air going into the valve cover?  What effect will this have on the PCV?    I suppose it will 'feel' it on both sides but the additional piston 'draw' will make the difference?

I like the fact that for the blown air theres a much wider path to take those final turns.  It actually looks better than many stock cars intake path.

Perhaps some heat wrap for the intake near the exhaust?  I would not want the steady state exhaust heat to get to the intake pipe.

Hey Dan, that's metered air too.

The 300zxt pcv diagram shows that its tapping air before the turbo also.  It is metered air and its always best to get that after the MFU and before the turbo.  A one way valve could also be used.  Basically its pushed closed when theres boost.

The 300zxt also has a pop off type unit tapped into the manifold.  Its a round device Ive seen on them.  Basically it protects in case the wastegate gets shut.

The PCV works by drawing air into the crankcase and then sucking air/gases through the PCV under certain vacuum conditions.  Is Dan saying the flow path is otherwise?

The PCV works by drawing air into the crankcase and then sucking air/gases through the PCV under certain vacuum conditions. Is Dan saying the flow path is otherwise?

No. If you're talking about the PCV Valve, that takes air from the crankcase (through an oil seperator) and blows it back into the top end. What I think Crowbar is talking about is the line running to the crankcase ventilation port. On the CA18ET, the tube from the ventilation port is is routed to the intake tube, before the turbo. The vacuum of air rushing into the turbo helps evacuate gases from the top end.  
  
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Yep, I did.There's no doubting that it works, but it's still extremely ghetto and there are a lot of safety concerns doing a turbo setup this way.

So, its gone from 'garbage' to 'ghetto'?  Are these Canadian engineering terms?

It does work and any 'ghetto' factor can be written off as just personal opinion.  

Maybe you should alert the company that is selling this product about your safety concerns.  Better yet, tell us what you think they are.

Ok, give the tough guy attitude a rest for a while. This is what happened in the last thread, and it's headed that way again. So just stop.
 
All I want to say is congratulations to MC for completing his project and all the best of luck in the future. Hopefully it works out for you.

I have a couple extra brake booster one way valves  laying around.....would these work alright???auto part stores carry these in differant sizes???Yup.. its ghettolicious!!!whatup are the safety concerns???...besides my shizzle gettin ups to speed two fast!

So, uh, those vise grips.  Is that your Dizzy clamp?

Its a shnizzy dizzy ghetto-clamp

So, uh, those vise grips. Is that your Dizzy clamp?

I thought thats what it was for, I didn't notice it there right away.  Those things come in handy don't they.

YEAH...I snapped the hold down bolt.PIA.

Could someone tell me which of the following vacuum lines are ported or full time vacuum....charcoal canister top hose?egr hose that runs down along the rear of engine and disappears from easy view?also if you can say where they are actually hooked into would help[before AFM or after,...t/b.,etc]..i've lost track with my custom set up and trying to make sure its right.

[url]http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=407098&page=1[/a]

Another fascinating discussion

[url]http://www.lextreme.com/tt.html[/a]

twin turbo lexus remote?  chemically intercooled?

[url]http://www.snowperformance.net/[/a]

I rerouted the 2" pressure flex pipe that runs up to the t/b from the turbo...i was able to eliminate a foot of pipe...not much.. but i'm sure it will help build boost alittle faster....i ordered a real t3 inlet flange which I will downsize the exhaust from 2.5 to 2 after the cat"....i'll be wrapping this pipe with heat wrap....i'm hoping this change will build boost sooner overall....manual boost controller arrived today...nothing fancy....basic.

Crowbar...do you think all the vacuum lines running off the t/b[egr,fuel pressure solinoid,charcoal canister,etc] should have one way valves installed???Iblocked off the mistake line that was attached to the crankcase but was now wondering about other lines.thx.

They dont appear to have anything like that on a VG30ET.  If you wanted to 'valve' the egr, just activate the solenoid and it 'crimps' that charged air from getting to the egr.  Same for the fuel pressure regulator.  Will have to look into FSM for turbo cars.

The Pressure Control module (not the ecu) controls this for the fuel pressure regulator.  If these modules are the same for turbo/non-turbo, I wouldnt worry.

The charcoal can gets full blast (no solenoid).

I predict overall drivability will be better once you go to a smaller exhaust.  It will help low end non-boosted as well as mid range/top-end.

On a stock turbo, the actual volume of 'exhaust' is usually very small in comparison to the intake volume.  You have it reversed.

Its time for a update on this project.....I finally got around to using the proper T3 flange with a 2" mandrel curve fit on the turbo...i picked up some copper impregnated header wrap and installed that from the back of the cat to the turbo[mostly anyway]....THE heat wrap works great and the AFM is better protected now as well...it gained a little more punch on the bottom end from these changes.....it is still running great...pulls 20.5hg at a steady 850rpm.... good oil pressure....fast idle has been fine....I'm looking into a better fuel pump or maybe a add on in line pump  as well as RRFPR to add more fuel under boost...I still have to dig out the timing device[VC200] and take some 0-60 runs.

how about some pics............. ;)

You should try the throttle body potentiometer pot trick if you have one.  KA24e throttle bodies have rotary pots as well as TPS.  The pot can be made to trick out the cyl head temp sensor.  As the throttle is opened, the rotary pot in parallel will change the sensed chts (seeing a cooler head).  The ecu will jump up the fuel and timing as if the car was cold.

....thanks for the tip....your talking about the TPS which has the extra wire/connection attachment???splice this TPS connection between the stock CHTS and harness???

Yes its the extra connector that many KA24e have.  But I am specifically using a Stanza KA24e early 90s throttle body.  The TPS is a limit switch setup and the potentiomer is a rotary varying resistance.  An interesting thing is that California 300zx (at least the 88 ) have potentiometers as well as TPS.

On my potentiometer, there are three wires running to the connector.  The wires are red, white and black.

If you have a chts that works, you will want to have a switch that interupts this connection when the car is cold started.  This is because the ecu needs to see a high resistance from the chts when its cold.

If you have a multimeter, measure the potentiomers resistance looking into the red and black wires as you move the throttle.  You should see a varying resistance as a function of throttle opening.  I will measure the resistance and how it interacts with the chts negative response thermsitor characteristic but I am only basing this on my own throttle pot resistance range.  Measure resistance between red and black, red and white, white and black and do it at idle and full throttle for all cases.

The trick is that the ecu will respond to the 'chts' resistance as it varys with throttle opening.  The ecu is fast enough to take this into account.  As the throttle opens, the fuel curve will be set for a cooler head temp.  The timing will also be advanced.

Another trick with TPS is to get one for a auto tranny car (if you have a stick car of course) and use the throttle position switch (TPS) signal for full throttle position (stick cars TPS have only off idle switch not full throttle).

The full throttle position can then be made to trick out the fuel temp sensor.  The fuel temp sensor is similar to the chts in that its a negative going resistance with heat rise.  You would want to 'trick' this sensor by making the resistance seen to be 'hotter' than it actually is.  The ecu compensates for hot fuel by enrichening the pwm of the injectors.  I imagine this can also be done in parrallel with the parallel connection only being made under full throttle.  A resistor sized to appear (or make the parallel connection appear) 'hot' gets kicked in.

This is all simple stuff and can be done for pennys.  The one thing you do not want to do is have a break or discontinuity in resistance seen.  This will trigger an error signal.  The ecu must be fooled that somehow resistance has changed and it must respond according to its program.

Edit:  I will post a wiring diagram

This is the temp response of the chts thermistor.  If you unplug this and measure into it you should see these resistances under these temp conditions

20 C 68 deg F (2.3Kohm-2.7 kohm)
50 C 122 deg F (770-870 ohm)
80 C 176 deg F (300-330 ohm)

Note the resistance goes down as the temp goes up.

If your car is 'cold' and the temp outside is around 70 deg F, then your measurement should be in the 2.3-2,7Kohm range.  Drive your car and get it up to temp.  Unplug and measure again.  It should be around 300-330 ohms.

If its open (Megaohms) or nearly zero (short) then you have a bad chts.  They are a pain to change.

I run without it.  I wire the leads directly into the throttle pot. At idle my car thinks its getting 770 ohms or around 122 F.  At full throttle it thinks its about 40 below.  To start my car, I give it a slight 1/4 throttle opening (increases resistance and car sees 'cold') and it fires.  I use the black and white wires.

When I wanted to get an emissions test, I layed a 500 ohm resistor across this in parrallel.  Car passed easy.   This made the 'seen' resistance around 300 ohms pretty much across the throttle opening range.

Notice that chts also impacts how the injection is controlled.  So does RPM and starting.

But if you can trick out the chts sensed by the ecu, you can make the FI pulse width modulation change earlier.

[url]http://img72.echo.cx/img72/8784/fi2ap.png[/a]

NOTE: this is from the 88 300zx field service manual.  It may not apply to earlier 300zx or 200sxse cars.

chts:
I just read that chts are different on different 300zx year models.

For 1987 and later 300zx, the chts is the same as the 200sxse.  Its output resistance follows what I posted above.

1986 and earlier have a different chts response.  A few guys here run 86 300zx ecus.  So I suppose they should use a correct chts for that ecu.  The 87 and later is just a narrower range of resistance response.  More than likely, there is no need to change.

fuel pressure regulator

The 300zx vg30et has a spec for a higher fp once the throttle is mashed.  I suppose that means the fpr is different for a turbo.  The 88 300zx turbo also has a surge tank somewhere in the fuel system.  It gives capability to flow more fuel under boost.

It might be worthwhile to investigate the vacuum line control to the FPR in turbo cars.  It appears to be different than a VG30e.

A neat trick would be to just have a means to cut vacuum to the FPR as a function of boost.  This is done by feeding the voltage to the solenoid controlling the FPR vacuum.  It just pinches off the vacuum.  As the vacuum goes to zero, you get max fuel pressure.

Crowbar...nice job posting the 300zx turbo similarities/differances....looks like my current set up with the latest pipe/ flange/wrap/clamp changes starts making boost in second gear at 2800rpm and pulls strong to redline....i havent upped the boost because its going to lean out with this n/a set up....its to much fun to brake something now.

A simple test would be to just disconnect the vac hose to the FPR and see if it feels better with max fuel pressure while running around.

Another cheap test would be to measure the fuel temp resistance and then parallel a similar sized resistor.  More than likely, the fuel temp resistance will be about 2 Kohm or so.  Find a 2 Kohm resistor and just wire it in from the connector to ground.  The seen resistance will be about 1 Kohm (meaning hotter gas temp) and the ecu will enrich the mixture.

i'll try disconnecting that vacuum line to the FPR.CROWBAR, does the 300zx turbo fuel pump drop into the 200sx tank???

[url]http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2559/gas7im.png[/a]

The 200sx has a fuel pump and level float built in.  The 300zx has a seperate sending unit.  It might be possible to just strip out the electric motor part if you get a turbo fuel pump.

[url]http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/7833/surge9vk.png[/a]

This pic shows the surge tank for the FPR.  It actually seems to direct pressurized air back against the FPR.  I wonder if boosted air can damge the FPR unless a system like this is used.

In any case, this vacuum control solenoid is different.  And perhaps the control from the ecu for it.

The VG30ET AAV does appear to be the same as the non-turbo IAA unit.  I have two of these by the way.

Sorry I havent posted any updates on the remote turbo project.....its still running and boosting.....someone else try this upgrade...i'm really disappointed the board banned Crowbar.

i am putting my SE up for the NY winter comming up and am seriously thinking about doing this mod along with the pathfinder intake manifold conversion.  One question i do have is where did you run the pipe from the turbo bake to the intake manifold, did you have to cut a hole in your fire wall? Also the intake piece that you use how much custom fabrication went into that?  I think i would run 2" piping back from the cat to the T25 turbo with possibly 2" back, think i should go smaller running it back up? Ive been researching it alot it would be cool to have 2 remote turbo SE's running around.

....it was fitted past the steering column/engine up to the z31 turbo intake connection[2" diameter]...turbo flange was welded up at a muffler shop[just bring them the correct flange and a mandrel bend pipe which has been measured and position orientated for your set up....simple stuff once the turbo is hung in place back there.

Do you have any videos of the car running]? and how is the lag?

Sorry no video...i can send some pictures....just ask what part you want to see...there is a little lag but boost builds strong in second gear[5-6 lbs] around 2500rpm.....presenty i'm working with a x-member Crowbar adding a 7th injector[need to enrich the fuel mixture] as well as a water/alky injection set up....i'm also planning on changing the rear and or tire height to get a better gear ratio so the boost builds earlier.....the car runs excellent under the stock ECU..starts on the first try..never stalls...stays at fast idle[1200rpm] and idles down to a rock steady 700rpm...very responsive...revs smooth...sounds nasty...gets the same gas milage/sometimes better[no joking]..if you want to turbo the 3.0 its the fast and easy and cheap way to go[i have actually remounted the turbo higher so it looks a little better....trust me, even a "rear turbo" turns the car into a ANIMAL.

That is so bad ass, the thought of it is cool and knowing someone has done it makes it that much cooler. good work on it and not going halfway then stoping

Last couple posts were lost in the crash so its time for a update...i added a rising rate fuel pressre regulator,BEGI 8025,it works by upping the fuel pressure when it detects boost which in turn makes the stock injectors flow more fuel....second upgrade was a cheapo water/alky injection set up...used a spare stock 200sx windshieldwasher reservoir/pump and mounted where the stock airbox used to be located...the system is triggered by a Hobbs boost switch ...a McMaster-Carr misting nozzle is installed in the elbow thats before the throttebody.

I had to get it to a safety/emission inspection today[expired].I was a little concerned it might  fail the tests due to all the upgrades.It passed with no problem at all.The car was run with the 1986 300zx non-turbo ECU/AFM............................. HC LIMIT .80 RESULT .64     CO LIMIT 15.0 RESULT 3.9   NOx LIMIT 2.00 RESULT  .48 ....ITS GOOD FOR ANOTHER YEAR!!!...next upgrade is a turbo 300ZX ECU and larger injectors.

Use photobucket.com and post pics please.

 
For what it's worth, this is what I feel is the BEST choice for an SE owner who wants boost.
 
As an added idea, you can heatsink the sides of the pipe if you're worried about heat, but frankly, from the V8 guys who've done this quite a bit, it doesn't need it.
 
Like I said, get pics. And get a list of things you did, i.e. parts list, costs, basic project steps (not actuall "how to" steps, just more like "1. Run pipe to back, 2. make turbo mounts, etc.)
 
PICS PICS PICS!

im jealous....its either remote mount, $6000 for NA V6 power, or Turbo 4 swap...crap!

Umm 6K sounds a bit steep to me, the thunderbird 4.6L v8 guys are doing it for a shitload less.... and those cars are trickier.

im just throwin out a number, but to achieve 400 NA horsepower from the VG, would require quite a bit of work.

Anyone who wants to see a picture just e-mail me want you want...  you can post them here...i cant seem to figure that out...I might be moving the turbo closer to the rear axle and getting a dump/outlet flange to make room for a muffler.I'd like to try and quite it down abit.

no offense taken...i'll figure it out one of these days,years,ect!!!...i picked up a 90 degree bend 2" diameter silicone hose today....pretty nice....its going to allow me to raise the turbo a couple inches higher.My turbo ECU from a 1986 300zx should be delivered tomorrow as well.

no offense taken...i'll figure it out one of these days,years,ect!!!...i picked up a 90 degree bend 2\\" diameter silicone hose today....pretty nice....its going to allow me to raise the turbo a couple inches higher.My turbo ECU from a 1986 300zx should be delivered tomorrow as well.

i installed the 90 degree bend today and then decided to try and reconfigure how the downpipe faces....i spun the turbo so the two pipes feeding in /out of the turbo are on the left and the downpipe is now on the right...this will allow me to install some form of a muffler on this setup...a straight bullet type muffler should fit and quite in down.