So I have been thinking of a few ways to do this, and researching as well.
1) I wire up this HEI igniter kinda like how it is found here.
http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/gmhei.html
Not vacumm advanced but might still work
2) This guy took a Mallory 6cyl dizzy from his Datsun 240z and removed the gear at the bottom of the dizzy and put the vg30's on it and bolts up except for the mounting point where the guy welded on a piece of metal to adjust the timing.
http://community.ratsun.net/topic/51922-four-door-dimes/page-5
3) Pertronix Magnetic pickup, but unsure what people use because they technically do not sell a datsun / nissan one. I assume since it uses HEI that GM or Ford 6cyl should work.
4) if 1-3 doesn't work pick up an MSD 6AL2 box and make it fully happen.
5) Continue to wait till DUI sends my dizzy.
I might actually order option #3 if it doesn't fire from option #1 while I wait for option #5
and option #4 will happen sooner or later due to a rev limiter I will need to have.
Browse › Builds & Media ›Build projects
Project: Fairlady Silvia - 1987 200sx SEv6...
Distributor is finally in but I am having some major problems that I will explain after this bunch of photos.
Here is the size of the HEI vs standard OEM dizzy.
(http://www.g-funk.net/200sx/fairladysilvia/2015-08-26%2018.34.50.jpg)
Pay attention to the stalk between the oem and hei above and I will explain later.
(http://www.g-funk.net/200sx/fairladysilvia/2015-08-26%2018.50.27.jpg)
(http://www.g-funk.net/200sx/fairladysilvia/2015-08-26%2018.50.38.jpg)
(http://www.g-funk.net/200sx/fairladysilvia/2015-08-26%2018.50.42.jpg)
Damn thing is big, the wood wont even close now at the front.
(http://www.g-funk.net/200sx/fairladysilvia/2015-08-26%2019.18.27.jpg)
Installed,
(http://www.g-funk.net/200sx/fairladysilvia/2015-08-26%2019.30.37.jpg)
Now the bad,
First crank nothing all I hear is the dizzy electronics but it is not spinning. I attempt to put the motor back to TDC but the crank will not budge now, and after the few attempts it did move the crank the timing marks are aligned up still but I noticed that the timing belt is extremely tight.
From the cranks with the motor I also notice the dizzy bouncing up and down every time, at this point I am trying to crank it and it will not do that, something is moving but it seems like it is impossible to move. So tomorrow I will hunt down something strong enough to clamp down the dizzy in place and figure out wtf is going on because at this point, I feel like something is messed up and I have really no one to assist as right now I am guesstimating. Trial and Error I guess, hopefully something isn't broken internally.
I think they assumed that you don't need something to keep the dizzy down, so no mounting hardware was including just instructions how to wire it up.
The engine did run before with the efi, right?
It should still crank over at least, even of the distributor is flopping in the wind...
Yeah, it did before I ripped it apart and replace the rings. and re-hauled the gaskets. I followed the FSM with everything so I am a bit stumped. You would figure it would turn as if it had no spark, but I am not getting that. Instead it moved 2 1/4 turns and the TBelt became extremely tight to a point it might snap.
Didnt someone else do this same mod? Have you checked their build thread to see if you missed anything?
Turns out I might have more issues,
FSM doesn't tell me exactly how to install the hydraulic lifters just install with a wire, so I had the lifters upside down.
Second I am having a huge problem with my cam's are getting stuck when I turn them.
https://youtu.be/V-n7qDeE_Rw
Is the popping sound the crank sprocket jumping teeth on the timing belt? As far as the cam refusing to turn I can only speculate. I assume you used assembly lube when putting them in so I will discard the idea of gouged surfaces. With that out of the way I would remove the timing belt and see if it is just one cam or both that is sticking.
After that check for possible debris in one of the valve springs preventing it from compressing. If you have double springs on each valve make sure they are both still centered and have not slipped between one another, each preventing the other from compressing. This shouldn't be possible if they are coiled opposite directions but it is something to check. Did you rebuild/clean your hydrolic lifters? Perhaps one of them is stuck at full extension, not compressing and thus preventing the cam from rotating. I honestly have no idea. Just trying to think through what shouldn't happen that is physically possible.
Now that is happening after 4 rotations with no rockers currently install thus keeping all valves closed. If I do it a few times it will start rotating more.
But yes I did use lube as recommended if not a little extra to prevent any future issues. In a few hours I'll brake down the heads to inspect to see what is the hold up and deal at
Fuck it, KA time
I am not going to KA an sev6...
on the other note, I am now draining the water from the radiator getting ready to see what damage has been done and if I need to replace any valves. On the good side rockauto has valve replacements for hella cheap. But I might also hunt down for Quest heads.
Fuck it put 2 KAs in there. #yolo #sweg #KK48DERRTT
SchizophrenicMC on 09:09:18 PM / 31-Aug-15Fuck it put 2 KAs in there. #yolo #sweg #KK48DERRTT
Fuck that. If you are going to swap out the V6 go http://www.holeshot-racing.co.uk/index.php/engines/h1-v8-busa or go home.
Back on topic . . . It is locking up with the lobes not contacting anything at all . . . After spinning freely??? Ummmm . . . Uhhhhh . . . Is it somehow moving longitudinally (forward/back) and making contact with the casting? Something sounds fucked for sure.
I say go to the yard and pull a set of VG33 heads. Better flow, larger exhaust studs, direct bolt on. Then use your bigger VG30 cams. If you are going to pull the VG30 heads anyway to inspect why not improve them?
I actually had the hydraulic lifters upside down. So the valves never really worked instead the cams would get stuck with the upside down lifters.
how i got them upside down is beyond me I don't remember taking them off as it was like over 3 months ago and the way I had them laid down I assumed it was the right way to reinstall. FSM doesn't show / say how to install them just install them with wire and goes right to the rockers how to install them. So it threw me off till someone finally said something.
As I said lesson learned moving forward, I'll put everything back together after troubleshooting why I now have no spark with my daily again.
I have fixed the issue with the lifters are they are now back to normal, torqued everything to spec and tested a rotation with the rocker arms on and all made contact.
Will perform a first start up hopefully tonight.
See video it is awaken now!
https://youtu.be/lNPiEg8zwzU
Okay seriously you have to START the video with the phone horizontally for it to shoot a horizontal video.
I held the phone the same way here and it took one the right side this time.... stupid android. better then an iphone still.
https://youtu.be/rJpV8xHKWfs
Sounds fucken sick.
That starter explosion though
Yeah, i gotta tighten the bolts better with the transmission.
I gotta tune it more, that second video is a bit more tuned at the carb as you notice from video 1 and 2 the throttle response is different and isn't chugging. It is what I expected to be with the throttle response just a touch and it's direct. I know I can also achieve this with EFI but that would require some upgrades too for now this is fun.
I'll have a better response when I get it out of the garage all the way with the wideband in sight.
Wideband? Just set it with a vac gauge, the old way.
It's gonna be pretty sick either way. I don't see it making any more power, but CARBS BRO. And it does sound better.
Yeah, I am not looking for super power anyways, I have a cadet for that, in which I can now focus on next with.
This is all about the fun and see what a carb can really do for an N/A application. THe sound in RL actually has a higher pitch then the youtube quality. weird is my nexus 6 was supposed to record that in UHD 4k, but sseems to failed. So I will get the GoPro on it tomorrow and get another video of a better quality.
Nice man! Glad to hear it running. Still need to figure out what to do with that nose tackle sized dizzy.
A sixpack setup would have been a more awesome setup than that crummy 4 barrel...
Holley 2BBL sir, 4BBL is too much for the vg30.
the 2BBL would produce more power than the 6 pack would. 500CFM might be too much for it as well but so far so good, I like how it idles so far.
https://youtu.be/rArsB0rpOY0
the power is limited by the ITBs
I am here to have fun and see what a holley can produce.
seishuku on 12:19:36 PM / 03-Sep-15A sixpack setup would have been a more awesome setup than that crummy 4 barrel...Looks like a single 2 barrel to me. My guess is his off the shelf options for running a single carb VG are much more numerous than any multiple carb set up. Likely a decision made out of simplicity.
However, a custom 3/2's or ITB setup would be awesome looking and sounding. Just a lot more custom fab and tuning.
Post Merge
Bah. Late to the reply as always.
It's a 2BBL
updated with a new video.
https://youtu.be/Ukv5h9qTuf4
Whatever, it's a carb. :P
Needs like 6 webers instead.
Update on this, found the oil leak as the oil pan needed a few more turns on the front half of the pan.
Other news I have been fighting a bad sinus infection that seems to come every fall for me. I think it has alot to do with the dry hot heat to the mildly humid cooling down temperatures.
After I go renew my driver license Saturday, I will be focus on wiring the temp gauge and tuning the carb so I can actually take it for a spin.
Oil leak was actually unknown still, but I had a hint it was coming from the oil pump housing. I went a head and added a 1/2 turn more on the bolts but I am afraid that I might have to order a new one, which Means I will most likely have to pull the block again. :-(
I hit the timing gun on it and it was +30 advanced already I attempt to lower it and it died and was unable to start it back up since, I now have it on TDC again and ripped it apart to hunt down the oil leak I have developed. I will restable the dizzy in a more correct position and see if I can find a better vacuum port for the advanced dizzy. This sucks, because I have been working 12-14 plus hours at work daily and I have little time to mess with this now and street driven is coming up quickly.
You poor bastard...You have been working this thing like a madman, only to be foiled again. We are keeping up with your project with interest as this is something quite different from the norm, hope you can overcome all the roadblocks.
The oil pump can be replaced without pulling the engine if the gasket is fairly fresh and doesn't stick, you have a good collection of semi-specialty tools, confidence in your ability to line up gasket-part-washer-bolt and assemble it all without seeing it, and possibly some really good RTV skills. I've done it to the VG on my pathfinder but it I would not suggest it to most. LOTS of potential for dropping things in the oil pan and pinched gaskets. As difficult as it is to get the VG out of a WD21 it was worth it for me to try. Not sure if the same is true for an S12. If you want more specific details shoot me a PM and I'll send you my phone number. I wish I had the time to take pictures of it when I did it. Would have been great content for the site.
Ian, you sure get into some interesting things! It's nice to hear of ideas that folks come up with while dealing with painful issues, and I appreciate your sharing these tips!
Yo man, this is zero cool!
Yeah, I hope I got the issue resolved I wont know till I start it up. I goofed up the wiring for the efans and drained my battery where I decided to get some sleep. I will charge up the battery tonight and start over, hopefully the oil leak has stopped if not I will have to undo the timing again and try that way above, or with out removing the engine again I should be able to drain the oil, lift the engine up to remove the pan and swap out the pump as they seem to be very fragile and when I was removing the old gasket I might have tweaked the surface. But like I said it is not easy locating the actual weak spot.
Thanks Cajun. I've been lucky to be involved in some very unique projects over the years. As for this tip, if you do end up replacing the oil pump here is how I did it . . .
Considerations =
1) Is your pan gasket going to need replaced? If so you will need to remove the pan entirely. Not sure if that can be done in the bay on an S12 but it is impossible on a WD21 Pathfinder. If the gasket in question is not new enough to still be supple just plan on pulling the engine anyway.
2) Do you have the mechanic skills and tools described below? Not every tool box has some of the stuff I used (but they should) and without some of them attempting this is folly.
3) If you find out you are fucked halfway through, do you have still the ability to pull the engine after all and get it done the traditional way? If not you probably shouldn't start this in the first place.
Prep =
1) Disconnect battery.
2) Drain the oil.
3) Remove the radiator, shroud and fans if equipped.
4) Remove the accessory drive belts, crank pulley, timing belt and timing gear from the crank.
5) Unbolt the motor mounts.
6) Loosen the transmission mount bolts.
7) Raise the engine as far as possible making sure you disconnect any lines/wires/hoses/exhaust that pinch/bind/stretch and write down where they are so you don't forget to re-connect them.
8 ) Block the engine/transmission with jack stands, large wood blocks or some other adequately strong and stable substitute.
9)
Removal =
1) Remove all of the pan bolts. Under the car this may require creative use of socket/universal/extension combinations and various lengths of box, open and angle head wrenches to get at every one of them.
2) Gently drop the pan making every effort not to damage the gaskets.
3) Carefully stuff clean rags or paper towels in the opening between the block and the dropped pan to ensure no debris falls in during your work. COUNT THEM and make sure the same number come back out before re-assembly!
4) Disconnect the oil pickup tube from the bottom of the oil pump. Before you get started with this make sure you have at least 2 magnetic pickup tools, several different length/configuration end wrenches, and several socket/universal/extension/ratchet combinations of the appropriate size (10mm???) within arms reach of where you are working. That or a second person who can bring you tools.
4a) If you have a good strong magnet, stick it to the bottom of the oil pan just below and behind where the oil pickup bolts are. If you drop a bolt (you should plan on not dropping them), washer or gasket (some of the pickups use a metal gasket) this magnet may prevent it from getting lost in the pan. Loosen both of the pickup tube bolts. Stick one of the pickup magnets onto a bolt/washer. Stick the second pickup magnet on the gasket (if it is a metal gasket). Depending if you are using wrenches or sockets you may need to get a little creative with how you hold the magnet onto the bolt as it turns. Be particularly careful the last couple of turns and make sure you don't drop them into the pan. The pickup magnets are worth their weight in gold here. Once the two bolts are out you should be able to flex the pickup tube just enough to slide the gasket out.
4b) Time to use more rags/paper towels to fill in the front portion of the gap between the pan and the block. COUNT THEM for removal later.
5) Remove the bolts securing the oil pump to the block. This should be fairly easy.
5a) Removing the oil pump itself will require some wiggling of the pump and the oil pan to make enough room. I ended up rotating the pump about 90° around the crank to align the shortest end of it with the dip at the front of the pan, pulling it part way forward, then rotating both the pump and the pan to walk it through. The S12 may have more room up front but that's what it took on the WD21.
5b) Make sure the towels are in place and clean the oil pump gasket surface.
Installation =
1) Prep the gasket surfaces on the block and pump to your preference. Depending on where you sit in the yes/no RTV on gaskets camp you can either use a thin film of RTV to stick the gasket in place or just a couple of spots to stick it in place and prevent damage while installing the pump.
2) Rotate the flat portions of the cam/gear inside the oil pump to be roughly aligned with the crank once installed (much easier than trying to turn it once it is on the crank shaft). Install the pump using the reverse motion you figured out to sneak it past the pan.
3) Bolting on the pump should be fairly easy. Just make sure the gasket was not damaged.
4) Remove the correct number of towels from the front of the pan/engine gap. You did count them right?
4a) Locate any towels that are unaccounted for.
5) This is where finger dexterity is an absolute must. Get your tools from "Removal" step #4 above again and/or your helper handy. The magnets will prove invaluable for securing parts before they fall and retrieving them if they do fall. You may have plenty of room with the S12 but the WD21 only allowed 1-2 fingers at a time.
5a) Put the washers for the oil pickup bolts onto the bolts and attach one of them to one of the pickup magnets. Attach the oil pickup gasket (if metal) to one of the pickup magnets. Align it as best you can between the pickup tube and the pump, leaving the magnet attached. If it is not a metal gasket use extreme caution not to drop the gasket as you move it into place. Get the bolt with the magnet on it started a couple turns then remove the magnets. Attach a magnet to the other bolt/washer and get it started also. Once they are both started remove the magnets and tighten them to spec.
5b) If you do drop a washer or bolt that you can not reach take your strongest magnet and rub it around the bottom of the oil pan until you hear the part stick. You can use the various magnets to slide/walk the part back up the pan wall to a place where you can reach it with your fingers or even another magnet extended into the pan. It is frustrating and can be time consuming but it is not the end of the world.
6) Pull the dipstick out. They can get pinched between the pan and block if you don't.
7) Remove all of the rags from around the pan/engine gap making sure the count is correct.
7a) Locate any that are missing.
8 ) There will likely be oil drips that developed along the pan/block gasket surfaces. You need to wipe these down and ensure the gasket surfaces are clean and dry.
9) I don't care where you sit in the yes/no RTV on gaskets debate. When you are re-using a gasket it is best to give it a little help sealing back up (appropriate types of gaskets only of course). You want to apply a thin film of RTV between the re-used pan gasket and the opposing gasket surface that it is not still stuck to.
9a) If you have not done much work with RTV before you may want to practice a bit before you get under the car. You will need to apply it to places that you can't quite reach with your hand so you may need to get creative. A few things to remember about RTV, it sticks to ANY dry surface, it does not wash out of cloth but it does wipe away clean from hard surfaces, and most importantly . . . it does not stick to saliva. Practice putting some RTV on something and smearing it into a thin film. Then put down another glop, then spit on your finger and smear it. Depending on how much spit and how far you pulled your finger will come away clean. Now put some on the end of a screw driver and use that to place and smear it. Then spit on the end of the screw driver, put the RTV glop on the spit and try again. With the spit more of the glop should have stayed behind.
9b) Put on grubby cloths (because you WILL get RTV on them) and get a roll of paper towels. You will need them to clean your fingers and various reaching tools several times. Using the basic methods mentioned above apply a thin layer of RTV around either on the gasket or the surface it will match up against. Thin RTV dries fairly quickly so make sure you are going to do the entire surface and replace the pan in one sitting. Wipe off any excess on the edge inside the engine/pan.
10) As soon as the RTV is applied double put the pan back in place and secure it finger tight with a bolt in each corner.
11) Install and tighten all of the pan bolts.
12) Replace the dipstick.
13) Give the RTV a few hours minimum to dry. Shouldn't be a problem with the rest of the re-assembly to finish!
14) Re-assemble the rest of the car in the reverse order you disassembled it in.
15) Don't forget to put oil in it before starting it up!
Summary =
This worked for me on my pathfinder and I still have no leaks almost 3 years later. The only real tricks to this are creative use of the magnets where you can only get one or two fingers in to start the bolts, and working with one of the messiest substances ever created (RTV) artistically. If you have spent much time working on aircraft firewalls or baffle then you likely already have the RTV skills required. If not be ready for a mess and some frustration.
If I forgot anything, you guys point out any glaring errors that I mistyped or request more detail I will update this as needed. Until then happy reading and good luck with your leak man!
Yeah, might not to be too hard. but I might have to lift the engine up a few inches because with the hockey pucks I created makes the motor sit really low.
I would say you are guaranteed to have to raise the engine. I had to raise up the VG in the pathfinder until the bell housing was mashed against the tunnel/firewall. You need to be able to drop the pan at least a few inches to get the wiggle room you need for fingers and tools.
idle is perfect now but I am still struggling I still have to tune the carb as you can see in this video of the smoke it is producing and I have to pull the oil pump because it is spewing oil everywhere and I can't seem to stop it. Looks like it is seeping from the cracks I could toss a crap load of gasket sealer around it but I might just call it a day and get another oil pump because when I scraped off the gasket I must have warped or damaged an area of no return.
KA Time?
That would be a waste of money for a minor issue....
Minor but annoying issue. So I will not be driving street driven event after all =( unless a miracle happens and I get the pump and able to get it tuned in time to drive it before the event.
Got the pump in, took some time off to lock down both my daily and this project.
I was able to replace the pump and turns out the pump blew a gasket that was causing the burst of oil to be shot out.
It was rather simple to remove all the bolts but I had to lift the motor up just to get enough of the pan to drop down to allow me to get the oil pump out from the oil pickup.
I got it 2/3 of the way back together and I also scored some low profile after market fans I will wire up instead of the maxima fans. They seem to work just fine with no major issues from them.
It is now all back together and so far so good with holding fluids.
New video please!
Started right up, and now has a leak again.
https://youtu.be/hSojofJY3qs
Lame!
I think it was due to the bolts needed a few more turns on the front as the timing belt this time was not covered in oil.
I need to tune it right, this is the second time I filled my house full of smog! and find out what my water temperature is.
After tinkering with it some, I was unable to keep it from running extremely rich, so I am now in search of an 350 CFM carb.
Get it!
Posting my 500 cfm on eBay shortly, giving some time on the vegasdrift parts page before proceeding.
I say just put it on ebay screw waiting lol but that's just me....