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mc..nothing wrong with asking,LOL!!.if my engine ever blows, i'd like to go with a 3.3 with the remote set up...GET A slightly larger turbo/injectors/better ECU..500HP EASY.
caraudiofooleryi forgot, do you need a 3.3 block to do that?a 3.3 isnt needed,,check out Z31PERFORMANCE.COM or vg30.com...lots of great info over there... a few have hit 450hp on the stock 3.0 bottom ends...i'd figure a little more 3.3 displacement can only help.
i kinda want something i can rev to the moon, that wouldnt help huh?
caraudiofoolery
i kinda want something i can rev to the moon, that wouldnt help huh?
Jsvob03get a vg20. im sure you could take the redline up a ways, you just lose displacement. lots of it.1000.00 or less at this point...its mostly all EBAY and junkyard and that includes the Begi-RRFPR/IC/electric fans/3.55 rear and the up coming WB O2...alot of that stuff isnt really needed but just sort of evolved with the project.The only paid labor was to get the T3 flange welded on a piece pipe for the hot side[10.00]...i just sold the original 3.90 rear for a 100 so subtract that amount!!
MC, still looks like a good project. if you had to put a dollar figure on your entire project, how much ould you say you've spent? (don't count labor, unless someone else did it)
Update...i had to bring it in for its annual safety/emission inspection and it passed once again.. initial timing at 20 deg and it was idle-ing steady at 750rpm.
NYC Test results
HC LIMIT .80 CO LIMIT 15.0 NOx LIMIT 2.00
HC RESULT.47 CO RESULT 1.6 NOx RESULT .62
where did you get your 3.55 gears? that must make the highway so nice with low rpms and long gears... did the gear swap make your car a lot more sluggish?
thats awesome
frosti108where did you get your 3.55 gears? that must make the highway so nice with low rpms and long gears... did the gear swap make your car a lot more sluggish?i picked up the 3.55 rear from a 84-86 300zx turbo for 90.00/shipped...i used the stock 200sx SE cv axles and its a direct bolt=in but a pain in the ass installing ..highway cruising is really nice now with the 3.55 ratio as it keeps the rpms much lower ,, i have gotten some amazing gas milage on long test trips[over 30].. the 3.90 ratio in first gear was annoying for me..i was never able to build up any boost with the 3.90's because the rpms rev so fast but couldnt load up the turbo..the 3.55s allow 5psi in first gear..i might install the 3.31 gear next and hit almost 40mpg[LOL]
thats awesome
You might like this diff then http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/R200-3-36-D...sspagenameZWDVW (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/R200-3-36-Datsun-240z-260z-280z-300zx-non-LSD-Rare_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33731QQihZ005QQitemZ150239501827QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW)
There is something so brutally mechanical about a differential that gets me all worked up.. If I had the space I would collect them.
also.. Updates? Video?
-Dan
update...i finally got around to removing the cat and installing the cheater pipe...i used 2.5" pipe connected to the stock "y" pipe..i built it so the cat can be easily reinstalled next year for the state emission test..it sounds aggresive now under throttle and a little rumble at idle[similar to my old 72 Chevelle v8]..it has made the car alot more responsive without the restriction before the turbo...i need to pick up some more header wrap to keep the heat in this replaced section...the JAW kit is about two weeks from completion[its getting final adjustments and added features]...The WB O2 sensor is going to be installed in the T3 turbo stock o2 port in the rear.
mcupdate...i finally got around to removing the cat and installing the cheater pipe...i used 2.5" pipe connected to the stock "y" pipe..i built it so the cat can be easily reinstalled next year for the state emission test..it sounds aggresive now under throttle and a little rumble at idle[similar to my old 72 Chevelle v8]..it has made the car alot more responsive without the restriction before the turbo...i need to pick up some more header wrap to keep the heat in this replaced section...the JAW kit is about two weeks from completion[its getting final adjustments and added features]...The WB O2 sensor is going to be installed in the T3 turbo stock o2 port in the rear.
asperaHello mc,..MY SET UP IS stock merge down pipe attached to a 2.5" cat cheater pipe which transitions down to a 2" pipe and into the turbo...the return side is 2" all the way back to the IC and then slightly larger for the TB connection....i've have no idea what a reverse cone looks like..post up a pix of a reverse cone..what would be the diameter of the nozzle opening??
You have a fan out here in the interwebs. I joined this forum just to post here. I don't even have a Nissan. lol
I'm a big fan of the RMTS (remote mount turbo systems) and think most people dismiss them too quickly. I like to divide the RMTS into bite sized pieces. As you know there are 4 pipes and 3 boost phases. Each pipe has its own diameter, length, and volume---and what is optimal for each one is different. A remote mount turbo has the ability to use a large diameter short exhaust after the turbo. That's nearly perfect for lowering the pressure after the turbine (and cheap!). The pressure differential across the turbine can go from (I think) somewhere around 40psi to nearly 0psi if no muffler is used. The air filter on a remote mounted turbo can be huge, and the pipe work can be large diameter and short. The charge pipe can get away without using an intercooler in many cases (especially with water/methanol injection).
The 3 phases (as I see it) are 1) non-boosted (N/A) driving, 2) building boost, and 3) boosted after the wastegate opens. In phase #1 a normal turbo manifold isn't the best option for flow or pulse timing. Lag doesn't matter at all in phase #1 because WOT isn't required from the engine. In phase #2, lag can be experienced. But if you've ever looked as some Front Mount Intercoolers on Subarus---you'll notice that the charge pipe loops all the way around the engine. A RMTS can actually have straighter pipes with less volume than many FMIC cars. And those pipes don't wrap around a hot engine. Even if the volume is larger on a RMTS, it isn't by much. Those pipes fill quickly. In phase #3 lag no longer matters. Most of the usable powerband is in phase #3, so there isn't much to complain about.
Okay, now that I got that off my chest here's what I'd like to suggest:
A CONE. Yep, a cone. Specifically, a reverse cone. Instead of a muffler AFTER the turbo, you could use a reverse cone as a muffler BEFORE the turbo. That would make the pressure after the turbo drop to atmospheric. It would also make the entire volume upstream of the turbo act as a large muffler.
The downside is that I'd ask you to try using larger pipe upstream of the turbo. Maybe 3" pipe? That might (or might not) cause more lag. A gently tapered reverse cone is a natural muffler and also a natural (drumroll) NOZZLE. A nozzle right before the turbo seems like a good idea to me. In phase #1 it wouldn't make a difference. You might even get better gas mileage. In phase #3 it would surely increase horsepower. The only question is how much it would affect phase #2 and noise level. I would think that the tone would be lower and quieter than when you ran mufflerless before.
Also, have you considered moving the air filter to the trunk area?
Hey if you have extra cash just laying around That diff I was talking about with the 3.36 gears is for sale here. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pts/741516005.html (http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pts/741516005.html) . thought it was funny and would post it
mc..MY SET UP IS stock merge down pipe attached to a 2.5" cat cheater pipe which transitions down to a 2" pipe and into the turbo...the return side is 2" all the way back to the IC and then slightly larger for the TB connection....i've have no idea what a reverse cone looks like..post up a pix of a reverse cone..what would be the diameter of the nozzle opening??
asperareverse cone=convergent cone=gets gradually smaller towards the turbine like a nozzle..thanks for the link..i'd probably be interested in a 2.5 to 2" cone to smooth out the transition..the reducer i used is a abrupt step-down...i'd rather not go to a 3" pre turbo only because it seems it would work against this set up...it will make it laggy...a larger pipe is going to take longer to fill..lose more heat energy through the larger pipes surface area.ect...the 3" straight through post turbo muffler on this set up sounds decent and isnt that restrictive...it removes that turbo whirling sound that existed when it had no muffler.
Megs makes divergent cones for hot rods, but you could just turn one around.
http://www.coneeng.com/conical_products.html (http://www.coneeng.com/conical_products.html)
My idea is that the long pipework (volume) from the engine to the turbo could be used as a muffler, and the conventional muffler after the turbo could be removed (thereby decreasing pressure after the turbine). The exhaust pulses from the engine would bounce back towards the engine off of the convergent cone just like they do in a 2 stroke motorcycle exhaust. Those return pulses would have several feet in the long pipework to collide with and CANCEL OUT some of the primary pulses coming from the engine.
There would be a tradeoff of lag (due to the muffler's backpressure after the turbo) and lag (due to the larger volume of the upstream pipes). BUT, the big-piped mufflerless version should kill on top end flow.
At the very least a gently tapered cone would be better than a rough transition from a 2.5" down to a 2" pipe.
Ju_S12_TurboHey if you have extra cash just laying around That diff I was talking about with the 3.36 gears is for sale here. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pts/741516005.html (http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pts/741516005.html) . thought it was funny and would post itLOL... I'D rather get a better turbocharger for that price ...i ran into problems with the Wideband O2 so thats been put on hold for the time being...i once again played around with the cold side pipes layout and was able to tighten it up and eliminate all the flex pipe [three feet of pipe]..it now follows a straight shot to the rear turbo..it follows the drivers side frame rail....it is building boost much faster so that section of flex pipe had some leakage.
good job
hey im wondering what kind of problems your having with your JAW as im having problems as well... mine seems to just read in the 20s most of the time, and once in a while it will show something realistic under WOT... at 1st i thought i calibrated it wrong since i used a smaller 12 volt battery, so i calibrated it again with a car battery and havent tried it back in the car yet. im thinking the JAW kit is just bullshit
frosti108hey im wondering what kind of problems your having with your JAW as im having problems as well... mine seems to just read in the 20s most of the time, and once in a while it will show something realistic under WOT... at 1st i thought i calibrated it wrong since i used a smaller 12 volt battery, so i calibrated it again with a car battery and havent tried it back in the car yet. im thinking the JAW kit is just bullshitit was grounded out by mistake and started to smoke...it needs new wires to by-pass the damage...hopefully.
update time...i pretty much went through the summer without making any changes to the remote turbo set-up...i did get a chance to finally paint the hood and scoop..Dupli-color sells a pre mixed lacquer paint[quarts] in a bright red that was a decent match to the Nissan hot red..its not exact but its close enough and for 40.00[one qt color and one qt clear] it fit the budget..i wet sanded and polished and its decent for shade tree project....
better update...i finally have the JAW Wide Band functioning as of today...its a great little kit for the money[under 100 with the WB O2]..right now its just reading the AFR data and its 14.3-14.7 at idle...later today, as it gets darker out, i'll get some data under boost[hard to read the display in bright lite]..it should be interesting!
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj192/dmc10132/carpix005.jpg~original)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj192/dmc10132/carpix016.jpg~original)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj192/dmc10132/carpix010.jpg~original)Pix shows horizontal IC...AFM...eclectric fan
that is so freakin cool
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj192/dmc10132/carpix015.jpg~original)
Really nice! I love that exit pipe, the way you ran it sideways. Where did you get that O2 housing and that exit pipe from?
Can you take a picture from the *other* side of the turbocharger? And a bit from the front of it where the cold side is?
...its all borrowed from the 84-89 300zx..i'll try to get a pix showing the other side.
What about the tailpipe, where did you get that? Or is it custom?
ArroWhat about the tailpipe, where did you get that? Or is it custom?...the muffler is from JCWhitney...the curved exhaust pipe is from Summit or Jegs mail order.
Can you take a video of how it sounds and upload to photobucket or youtube?
Man I really want to do this with an SE someday. I still think yours is the best method for turbocharging a VG in an S12.
...front to rear pix...cat removed..hot side pipes fully wrapped...cold side follows the frame rail...the small tubing is the oil feed line for the turbo...plenty of ground clearance.(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj192/dmc10132/003.jpg~original)
...(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj192/dmc10132/071.jpg~original)pix of the cat cheater pipe.
i hate you and your sexy vg + t
now, how are you getting the oil to return properly, i wouldve thought it would have some issues, as most oil returns are gravity fed. are you using an electric pump of some type?
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj192/dmc10132/IMG_0889.jpg~original)...passanger valve cover modified for the oil return...3/8" nipple.
Xanoi hate you and your sexy vg + t...dont be a hater!!...you need to build the second rear turbo 200sxSE in the country!!...yes, it requires a pump to return the oil from the turbo...i use a Mocal pump.
now, how are you getting the oil to return properly, i wouldve thought it would have some issues, as most oil returns are gravity fed. are you using an electric pump of some type?
mc...passanger valve cover modified for the oil return...3/8" nipple.i plan on it =D should be sometime in the next 12 months, starting in a week, after i fix a brake problem on the metro, my car will be taken under the knife for 12 months straight, while I do all sorts of things.
...dont be a hater!!...you need to build the second rear turbo 200sxSE in the country!!...yes, it requires a pump to return the oil from the turbo...i use a Mocal pump.
..this is a older pix...the AFM isnt mounted in the back and the pipes are alittle modified from this pix..but,you can see the Mocal oil pump as well as the air filter location.(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj192/dmc10132/191.jpg)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj192/dmc10132/192.jpg)(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj192/dmc10132/109.jpg)
Arro...here is a pix of the other side.
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj192/dmc10132/004-1.jpg~original)
Man that is just sweet MC.
I should do that to my car and see what happens .
What advantages of such system?
NitroWhat advantages of such system?
Why more power? Less heat I agree, but the turbo lag must be awful, no?
This was originally done by the F-body guys (Camaro, Fiberbird), and those guys had their turbos spolling up pretty quick, because the exhaust is so short and open on the backside. It compensates for the frontside. In other words, this turbo spools up because of the pressure differences in the rear... instead of the incomming exhaust pushing the turbine to spin, the outgoing pressure difference literally PULLS the exhaust through the turbine. Pressure differential, much the way weather fronts work.
lol looks like an easy way to get your turbo jacked!
where do you live. exactly
Dude lol removing a turbo isn't easy, the heat tends to tighten everything down and make it a bitch to remove without good tools and some time. Not something that can be snuck off very easilly.
David Blol looks like an easy way to get your turbo jacked!sure, if someone wanted it bad enough they can get it off, just like they are hacking off cat convertors for the rare metals....i make a habit of parking with the ass up against a curb to prevent access....other than that,i dont worry to much....its built for low buck fun.
where do you live. exactly
NitroWhy more power? Less heat I agree, but the turbo lag must be awful, no?..i dont have anything to compare it against in regard to "lag"...i never had or driven in a turbo car before this conversion...it does under 6 sec to 60mph and over 100 in the quarter...i believe its comparable to the 300zx turbo of similar years...maybe better??
Just tell us what RPM sees full boost.
ArroCan you take a video of how it sounds and upload to photobucket or youtube?...a couple videos and early/present build pixs.
Man I really want to do this with an SE someday. I still think yours is the best method for turbocharging a VG in an S12.
Here is a side by side pix of the Mocal and Tilton oiplpumps
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj192/dmc10132/IMG_0210.jpg)
Which is the one you ended up sticking with? Did I miss that earlier?
So this runs from the engine? or is it a self-contained system with its own oil reservoir?
ArroWhich is the one you ended up sticking with? Did I miss that earlier?..i used the Mocal pump..yes,it runs from the engine....the engine supplies the oil to the turbo and the pump is needed to return the oil back to the engine...front turbo set ups have gravity to drain the oil correctly back to the pan but remote mounts need electric pump assist.
So this runs from the engine? or is it a self-contained system with its own oil reservoir?