Project: Fairlady Silvia - 1987 200sx SEv6...

I'm sure finding a V8 with the same cam measurements, intake design will be tricky for sure.  Likely impossible if you try to include identical bore/stroke.  You might have some luck looking for engine efficiency numbers and using those as a baseline.  I don't recall ever seeing those published for cars but then again I have never tried.  The wildcard there is (at least in aviation) because the efficiency isn't a regulated engine parameter manufacturers sometimes fudge those numbers to make their product look better.  Shocking I know.  Just make sure you document it well for us.  Petty please.  With sugar on top!

Ordered this and installed.
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetor_components/accelerator_pump_parts/parts/20-11

I didn't finish till late so I wont be able to test it till later on today, but this should give me a longer RPM range.
Post Merge

As an update,
https://youtu.be/TSYZzSUqOoo

AFR is proving to be solid, what I have trying to troubleshoot was a typical issue with fuel dumping in the exhaust but that is because I have an exhaust leak.

Tonight, I tighten up the exhaust Y pipe to the headers as tight as I can get it. 2 bolts took over 4 hours due to the wrong sizes I have and either too long or not able to fit correctly.

Clean up the underside a bit and all I have to do now is verify that the throttle cable is solid and I should be sliding by tomorrow night.

Wonderingraven on 12:09:13 AM / 18-Mar-16. . .  I should be sliding by tomorrow night.

iceageg on 07:50:14 AM / 18-Mar-16Pics or it didn't happen.

Sweeeeeeet!

Some projects seem impossible to do alone, but learning is half the battle.

Right now I am leaning towards my stumbling issue on the fact I need more fuel being delivered. This is my issue with the EFI I got too much air not enough fuel.
So I placed the pump nozzle back on size 40 changed the pump cam to be more aggressive and to start shooting fuel asap. So tomorrow when I get up I'll most likely start tuning it and then adjust the pump spring, I also need more fuel in the tank and then I can drive it around the block again and hope it doesn't stumble and die again from fuel starvation.

Quick update, seems to be running ok now.

Here is a walk around, I need to get more fuel before I can test drive it around the block again. But so far so good.
https://youtu.be/Jw2HDM88YcQ

Bravo!

Hurray for hotrodding!!!

Yep, hotrodding for fun.
Modded the OEM throttle cable since it was broken well 2 I had that was broken and made 1 solid one with minor adjustments.

Here is the universal crap I had to deal with, that cable was hard to cut even with tin snips and when it was cut the cable would undo immediately and would poke the shit out of my finger. I hate how this really worked out and the feeling of the throttle as I could not get it at OEM feel, it was either too hard to too soft there was no in between. too hard would actually cause the cable to break out of the connector to the linkage with the cable.

(http://www.g-funk.net/200sx/fairladysilvia/2016-04-12%2020.13.22.jpg)

So, time to mod the oem,
(http://www.g-funk.net/200sx/fairladysilvia/throttlecable-mod1.jpg)

I had 3 of these OEM style thanks to Jimmy local s12 guy who hooked me up with one a few years back that one broke too but I also have the autozone part# for replacement cables.
2 of them broke and #3 still in a box for when I do if I do go back to EFI.
 

So after 1 hour and 1/2 of customizing the cable, I got it down to this, it feels OEM except the return springs are a tad strange, But it is doable.
(http://www.g-funk.net/200sx/fairladysilvia/throttlecable-mod2.jpg)

And.... because I didn't get a rag in the carb, I flooded the shit out of the system, so I cannot test it till tomorrow.

Well drove it and a little hiccup as I was going to park it, I had the clutch fully pressed in and it still stalled and has strange hesitation while driving.  But I can feel the torque though as prior to taking this video, I did a clutch kick and it responded.

https://youtu.be/p-YoaLNDzUE

As a small update, after all the raining and stuff I was able to start tuning it some and have some great success in doing so.

Well, it was by design I guess some vg's it needs that extra 2* off on the cam gears, but that doesn't explain why the driver side is that way. 
Anyways, timing fixed up.

Pump the gas twice, turn key and boom it fired right up no issues as normally I would have a random issue.
Let it idle, for over 30 minutes and this is what I came up with.

https://youtu.be/0uZ_uv-WYOg?list=PLhu0SLbICz5V_Yg4SmuwVUbLYVdt61V4f

This being almost 10pm, I am going to get some sleep and start tuning tomorrow morning.

Sooo after some collaboration, research, and asking others I have came to the conclusion that I am getting air in the fuel lines due the fuel line in the tank. I attempted to just go as long as the old efi fuel pump which at this point is not long enough, I need to find a universal sock and a longer hose to reach the bottom of the fuel tank.

So here is my testing for the day.

the 350cfm I can get idling good but when I remove that idle and go into drive mode it will lean out heavy. I have done a ton of basic tuning, testing, and verifying the situation.
Now out of curiosity I placed the 500cfm on this setup because I never ran the 500 with the vg33 heads.  Well turns out that I ran rich at the idle, but adjusted right I was able to achieve a good response and able to maintan 2k+ around 14.7 ish.

But all comes to an end as it likes to flood itself out due to the massive rich at idle.

So I was wondering how was this done?
Tonight I researched a bit, and I see the better flow from the heads vs the block.
Block is at the 181 CID, while the heads are for an 200 CID so my cfm rating is going to be different per application between the 2.

According to holley the 350cfm should be enough for the flow but the vg33 200 cid rating a 500 cfm / 4bbl 650 cfm would be suggested, kinda odd there.
So in essence, I have all tuned out as it was on the 350cfm, only thing different is the power valve, might be too weak to hold the fuel, i also might have a stuck float valve as well in the 500 cfm.

So I am actually much closer than I expected in achieving my goal. I do like the response the 500 cfm gives, it rips the throttle than the normal flow as my previous videos.

after spending all weekend troubleshooting why it just stop working friday night after changing to the 500cfm. Turns out my fuel pump just took a dump, I am actually done with this project for now. 

Only thing I have achieved on this project that I got it running, and it has been unstable, I can't leave my damn drive way with out it shitting out.  So I have spent too much time and lost alot of seat time... so I am just done.

" . . . so I am just done." meaning on hold until you get back to it after another project is on the road???

I am actually tired of the project, it was fun when it started and was fun till I ran out of options and tired of tossing money into it.

At this point, I need 2 different carbs to try. Even though the 500cfm seemed to actually be more of a better curve than the 350cfm except at idle.
2 is jumping into the 4bbl curve. I would need a 390cfm and a 650 cfm or might try my luck with an 500cfm 4bbl eldebrock.  reason being is that the vg30e is 181 CID and the heads are meant for the vg33e which is 200CID, this explains a bit on why a 350cfm was maxing out on WOT and why I can achieve 14.7:1 on 2k+ on the 500cfm but extremely rich at idle.

next would be the fuel pump, seems that holley red electronic pump has a problem with dying issues, cheap pumps have a shit ton of mixed reviews and a good decent pump seems to be over 200+

I guess, the fuel pump was the boiling point at the moment, I don't want to keep tossing money at this project when I have a nice ca18det in the garage that needs my attention.

go back to fuel injection scrap the carb and invest in boost it'll be easier and save you the headache time and money...

I am strongly considering it because I guess I am a bit burned out on the trial and error part of what works and what doesn't and it's hitting 100+ outside so... yeah I am done.

Well I did it, just need to install the new throttle cable and fuel lines and I am back to EFI and troubleshoot the lean issue but should be cleared since I am no longer running one cam off 2 degrees

EFI is back together, it's running smoothly, timing though seems to be off again when I hit the timing light.

on the stock N/a injectors just seems to still lean out the system, 17.1-17.4 at idle but I have a solution for using the adj fpr and after cleaning up some turbo injectors I am going to upgrade to them and see how things pan out at around 37 psi instead of 31 psi at idle.

Sounds good!

EFI is a bust, I need a custom tune for it to work correctly.  To even get it down to 16.9 I had to run the FPR at 55psi which is a bit too much to run on stock injectors or atleast I feel it will be.
Intake Duration (gross):   264
Exhaust Duration (gross):   264
Intake Duration (.050"):   208
Exhaust Duration (.050"):   208
Intake Valve Lift*:   .470"
Exhaust Valve Lift*:   .470"
Lobe Separation:   110
Intake Valve Lash:   .000"
Exhaust Valve Lash:    .000"
RPM Range:
2000-6000

vs
stock OE
Intake Duration (gross):   252
Exhaust Duration (gross):   252
Intake Duration (.050"):   194
Exhaust Duration (.050"):   194
Intake Valve Lift*:   .393"
Exhaust Valve Lift*:   .393"
Lobe Separation:   111
Intake Valve Lash:   .000"
Exhaust Valve Lash:    .000"
RPM Range:
1000-5000

According to the MOTOIQ guide for the pathfinder build,
http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/896/Project-Pathfinder-Part-8-Cams-ECU-Headers.aspx
 
"The stock VG cam shafts are very mild.  At the advice of the guys at Nissan Motorsports we added a set of their #2 off road cams to Project Pathfinder.  The cams have 264 degrees of duration and .430" lift with a 106 degree intake and 116 lobe center as opposed to the tiny stock 248 degrees duration and .374" lift with 114 lobe centers.  This is quite a difference and the cams really woke Project Pathfinder up.  In fact the cams made more of a difference than any mod we have done so far.  We estimate that the cams were good for about 25 hp over stock.  The power increase comes across the board with more power from idle to the fuel cut.  The Nissan Motorsports cams work with the stock valvesprings.  The only drawback is that they have a slightly lumpy idle due to the much tighter lobe centers which actually sounds sort of cool.  In town fuel economy has remained the same but the improvement in highway and towing mileage has been incredible increasing by 4 mpg.  This is because the added power helps the big Pathfinder travel down the road with less strain.  I highly recommend these cams as the best Pathfinder engine mod possible.  If you have a newer Xterra or Frontier with the bigger VG33E engine, these same cams will wake your motor up even more to the tune of 40 or more hp because the newer VG's are saddled with even smaller stock cams.  An older Z31 300ZX can also benefit greatly from these cams.    "

Long story short, 

when I had the VG30 heads on, it was drivable but it ran at 16.1 on the AFR and couldn't get it rich enough, VG33 heads on with the stock EFI it was stuck at 18.1, now with an AFR to get close to 16.1 I had to run at 55 psi.

With the carb, with the 350 cfm, I can get 14.7 but drivability it would lean out while driving because when I go full WOT it needed alot more fuel to keep up with the flow.
with the 500 cfm, I was able to achieve 14.7 at WOT but idle it ran rich at 12.1 and seem untunable that is when I found out my power valve was blown on the 500cfm.  and the holley red pump took a crap.

So I am trying something different I am keeping the walbro installed and using an 3 way efi to carb FPR as soon as it gets in. I have changed over a few things from the 350 cfm to the 500 cfm and will see how well it will work.

Wow, your determination is commendable! I sure hope you can get a roadable combination worth all the effort you're putting into your projects. Good luck with the ideas!

Well I am done with this project, I am going to start disassembling the whole carb setup and posting a for sale tag on it on ratsun, and reverting everything to stockish for now, I am saving up for a full rb25det swap in which I will be acquiring in the next month or 2.

Cams are going to someone already.

Only going rb25 due to I wanted to go this route a while back and I figured this would be a good time to get one and swap it in.  As sure, I can get a custom turbo setup for the vg30 and go that route but that doesn't seem fun.
Post Merge

Well damn you were really determined but rb sounds like alot more fun.

Well, it would be. But now that I have had some extra help and stuff and we located that the dizzy was made wrong on accident and the maker is willing to fix it for free. So will be keeping this around a little while longer.
 
As per DUI: The advance on the distributor you have now is designed to work the opposite rotation so that is why it is retarding instead of advancing. We will need to install a different shaft so that the weight assembly advances rather than retards.

My whole issue this whole time...
So,  another month of sitting and no more fun  =/

Well . . . at least i dont feel like such dunce for not being able to help figure it out.

It's all good, I got the dizzy sent back, est about 1-2 months before I can get back into the carb conversion.

Mean time I am reverting back to the basics, this time my old sev6 ecu and maf with stock injectors. I also fixed an human error I have been doing alot with the timing. Just so I can move it around.

https://youtu.be/ZiZl9i4MaZs

Back to the old school for now, this time working on rich status but better than the lean it used to run.

Nice Bartco product placement.

Anyone ever heard from Bart again? Always wondered where he would pop up again. He had great ideas, but POOR marketing skills.

From what I have heard, he vanished. Bartco was before my time I think as soon as I bought my first s12 in 2010 from the archives of the forum posts here is when he vanished completely.

Regardless where that sits, she is not going to get the tainted bartco intercooler. I have a new plan in mind on what will be routed.
(http://www.g-funk.net/200sx/serenity/2016-06-09%2016.26.52.jpg)

Lol I am the ony one that didn't get screwed. Not exactly sure what went down as far as the business for making s12 parts goes, but if he was still here I'm sure we would have an abundance of after market for the car as he and someone invested in a cnc machine and some other goodie. Gary why is the Bartco intercooler tainted? lol in all actuality it's an ebay intercooler with Bartco painted on it....

Did you ever try a throttle cable for a ka?

Too short also

No entry fee for the S12 meet, July 30th.  I'll even feed you breakfast and lunch!

Nice to see it's still running!

Bartco... wow. I might want to take that intercooler off your hands for the silly nostalgia of it. Funny you guys should mention him... I saw him crop up on Facebook's "People you might know" over the last year but I never said anything to him. Last night he sent me a friend request. No message, just the request. I haven't responded yet.

He screwed over a lot of people. I dont think he meant to initially but he made some bad choices and people got fucked because of it. I tried to PM him to ask what the deal was and he ignored me. I had to remove him as a moderator out of principle. And yes, then he basically vanished.

So now I dunno if I should see what he wants or not. Didn't end things on a good note.

Nice to see such a strong running VG!

Hit him up! At least hear his end of the story. He could have gotten locked up for all we know.

It was all done before I got here but I want to know more about anybody who was fabbing parts for our cars.

Hmmm maybe. I mean I kinda know what happened.... he was taking money for a job, supposed to use it to pay for materials for the job to build whatever was ordered. He would sometimes use it to finish a previously ordered job tho.. and was taking from one person to try to do another. At the same time, his wife never liked the car thing, and hated that he spent hours outside in the back yard shed. She pressured him to give up that shit. At some point he got in over his head, more people had paid for stuff than had been delivered completed. People lost money. Months and months went by. And eventually he just stopped signing in or responding and basically vanished. Left people assed out. I tried to contact him but he never replied.

And that was that.

I mean maybe there are other circumstances I didn't know about but it doesnt excuse it.

yeah, that is what I have read reading the forums a while back after acquiring the bartco ic.

That would make sense, possible other things to. Regardless it is bad business to jump into something with out a good business plan.

I would need a fresh set of tires before I trust this car to make it to san diego and some time testing possibly driving it back and forth to work for a bit to ensure stability and reliability.

Wow, hey it's ARRO! How ya been? I was one who got hosed by Bart, but that was a while ago. I would not do business with him, but he had great enthusiasm for the CA18ET and lots of ideas. I do miss all that and would love to know what he's been up to.

I texted him as well when it all went down. he said he and the z31 guy he was working with on the parts for the vg and the s12 had a falling out iirc the z31 guy was the guy that owned or possessed the cnc machine and other bits he needed to finish making parts. Along with the fact that his wife didn't like it. I will never understand women. Especially if your married you should support your spouse in whatever they want t do even if you don't think it's a good idea...

Nah that's bullshit. Or partially true. And even then he should have refunded people.

Oh for sure....

cleaning up the inside and had to make a quick walk around video of my car up and running.

https://youtu.be/si0VKCJZXPo

As I finally got confirm that my distributor is fixed and is being sent back, I will have it by next friday the 22nd.

As the plan now, I am going back to carb since I have fixed the timing on the efi and it's actually running decent.